They don't just come, they don't just come with this neat little package and hand it over to you, right? It actually has like, it's this insidious thing that works its way in all kinds of creative manifestations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let's talk about what shame is, right? So shame is the feeling, as Brené Brown says, is the feeling of I am wrong.

I am innately wrong, right? There's something about-- There's not even something about me, it's just me as a person is wrong, right? And so you're right.

It's not like people come to me and say, "I have sexual shame that I want to heal." That's not usually what it is, right? I would say the biggest way that it manifests in relationships are couples that have sex but don't talk about sex, right? That one's a really big one.

So couples that feel awkward and uncomfortable, they've been together for 10 plus years, but they've never sat and had a conversation about their desires, about what they like, about what they don't like, about their boundaries, about their curiosities and their fantasies and their kinks, right? So because they're not having this conversation, sex starts to feel uncomfortable, and suddenly you're trying to have this high level of intimacy with someone that you don't truly feel connected with because you're so ashamed of talking about the things that you want, right? Like I tell my clients all the time the importance of saying, "I would like it if you kissed me in this way.

Right? If that's a new, if that's a new expression, if you're starting to get centered with yourself, expressing desire, and this doesn't necessarily have to be sexual desire, but, you know, as people are kind of flexing that muscle and getting better at it, what do you feel like makes that so difficult for people?