yeah um but just tell us a bit about yourself like you know how did you get into pensions yeah and um then we can you know have a bit of a chat around that but then i'm really interested to know you know nixon pensions who are you what you're trying to do of

course um I think, well, contrary, I think to other guests, I did not get into pensions by accident.

It was a very deliberate choice.

I guess we found a second one, Darren.

We found a second one.

I think I'm drawn to complicated things for some odd reason.

Previously to being in pensions, I was working at a firm.

that.