I- is there anything that you've particularly noticed?

Yeah.

So a couple of observations.

Um, first of all, the buck genuinely stops with you here, you know? So although there is a board, and essentially actually the trustees on the board are responsible for a charity, the level of day-to-day decision-making that you do as a chief exec in a charity is far and beyond the decision-making you do as a DG.

So for example, what pay rises everybody gets, um, what, uh, reward package you might give people, there'd be decisions about whether to release certain comms.

Whereas in the civil service, although the scale and the risk that you're managing as a DG is enormous, and societal impact is enormous, there are lots of things, like you've still got number 10 saying whether your comms can go out or not.

You'll have a corporate finance team somewhere worrying about the financial solvency [laughs] of, of the organization.

It's having that open mind to innova- I guess it's innovation, isn't it? How do you square the two, and what advice would you pass on to, to project professionals around those two different aspects?