... which books are the, the sort of center.

It's all connected, isn't it, I think.

Um, I don't think we can separate what's happening to adult behavior from what's going on in the literacy space with children and in schools and sort of from birth, actually.

The sort of lack of understanding of the sort of importance of b- of a book as a tool for child development.

You know, if, if parents aren't reading themselves and not enjoying reading in their own adult lives, the chances of them, uh, you know, enjoying the point of books with their small children is, is very slim.

And they may know that books are a good thing for a child, but that's not enough, actually.

It has to be more about pleasure, enjoyment, the joy of it, um, the connection that gets made between a parent and child or a carer and a child when they're reading from the earliest, earliest stage.

It might seem tangential, but I think, I think it's huge.