Now, could you give us an example of one of something you, you've learned through, uh, through this process of, um, almost automatic writing after being in deep and letting the interiority become exteriority?

Oh, I mean, that's a lifetime's journey, Bernie.

[laughs] But let me go back.

I think eventually in this I would go back to when I ver- very first started this whole process, because I think that's probably quite important in terms of where I had started this interest in consciousness.

And I may have said it in my last conversation with you, but I went straight from school to working in residential childcare, so was working with very damaged young people from, uh, difficult backgrounds.

From parents who were either divorced or in prison or drug addicted, or various forms of, uh, n- not constructive ways of life.

And, and they were traumatized, and I was 18 at the time, and having been brought up in a loving and caring family.

Um, and that you emphasize how inner trust and interconnectedness, um, lead to transformation and compassion in society.