So h- how was that journey? How long did that take you?

Well, it, it took me, uh, approximately five years.

Um, I mean, you've gotta bear in mind that when I joined Crimewatch, I- I had been a press photographer for, uh, a few years and I didn't have, um, you know, I didn't, I, I wasn't, uh, a, a, a print journalist, so I had to learn how to research.

Um, but I think the way I got the job gave the, um, executive producer a guy, lovely guy called Peter Shaffer, gave him the encouragement that he needed.

'Cause what I did was I, I got the Radio Times, went through the Radio Times and took down the names of all the people who came last in the credits.

So the executive producers, I just went through and just got all the names of executive producers, and then I sat at my desk and wrote to all of them and told them how brilliant I am, um, in my estimation.

Um, and that was how I got the meeting on Crimewatch.

And then you come to a point in your career where you actually made the transition from just solely directing to producing, and I was wondering what led you to this kind of transition.