The first New Zealand Idol is Ben.

Ben.You know, there was definitely a difference in, like, pace and polish that seemed to happen after Popstars, and then as it sort of grew into whatever it became.

And it sort of became everything.

I know that sounds weird, but it's like Popstars here became Popstars became Pop Idol became X Factor became, you know, The Voice, American Idol, and then all of a sudden there was other shows popping up that were, like, reality cooking shows and all these other sort of, "What other things can we do to watch people? We put them in a certain situation and see what becomes of it." So yeah, I'm not saying that True Bliss started it all, or Popstars [laughs] started it all.

We were just sort of the...

I don't know.

We were at the start of something.

And let's not forget, Popstars wasn't just an international TV format, there were five women at the center of it all as well.