So any tips? What have you found effective there? And how have you projected your kind of influence across those organizations?

Yeah.

You probably wouldn't get it from this podcast, but I am much more of a listener than I am a talker.

So, asking the questions and then listening to people's perspectives, right, understanding the why, understanding decisioning, understanding impact, understanding, right, it's all those, if you can turn a conversation around, around and speak in their terms, or I guess it's empathy, technically, right? Be empathetic to what their perspective is.

It makes that just a ton easier, right? I go back to your questions about the background, right? App dev and infrastructure.

Even within a technology organization, it makes it easier for me to have those conversations with other tech teams.

You know, I'm not... configuring networks anytime soon, trust me, right? But I can have the conversations and I can understand where their perspectives are and where the hurdles might be or the pushback might be coming from.

Our future overlords, if you're listening.