So I wonder, Jim, whether you could start us off with talking us through what do you, what do you mean by relational leadership styles during a c- in, during a crisis, and, and why, why are you so passionate about it?

it?Um, thanks.

[clears throat] I guess the, the, the reason I'm so passionate about it is because I've seen it work, and I've also seen it fail.

I've seen it work in a number of crises, not just health protection crises, but policy crises like the, the cuts to the public health grant in England.

Um, and there's a really good model that, uh, I use in this chapter and others which, uh, was developed by people at Ashridge, which talks about four domains of leadership.

Knowing yourself, knowing other people, being technically good at what you do, but also actually kn- understanding and reading the context.

And without all of those together, your leadership's likely to go askew.

What, what did you sort of mean by that, and do you have any particular, you know, uh, examples from your career that made you come to that conclusion that relationships were your compass for finding your way during a crisis?