And you as well, the... like take us through sort of what that was like sort of dealing with with all of the all of the just press coming from that because unlike what you described with the yankees and unlike the uh the the um mike tyson one this was all over social media which is a different kind of just a heater just a heat wave that you have to deal with

I'll give you two quick stories of how what happened in the past helped prepare me for what happened with LeBron and the decision.

About a week after the Pete Rose interview, Al Davis, who was a mentor and a dear friend, called me up and he said, how are you doing with this? And I told him I'm doing fine.

wasn't what I anticipated.

He says, do you get upset that none of your friends have stood up and put an end to this and defended you? And I said, well, some of them have, but yeah, a couple of them, I am.

He said, you can't be upset with that.

And I said, why? And he said, because that's just normal.

why did you what was it that got you to start that like what why did you do that

Knowing what you did then, and seeing what you do now, do you have any idea how maybe he would do it, or something that he would take from that, or things that he would leave behind with that decision?

Well, it was a monumental decision, and it changed the paradigm.

It changed the entire course, exactly, of just how players went about it.

It was the Curt Flood moment for basketball, because it was player empowerment.

And if you recall at the time, David Stern was very aggravated, the commissioner of the NBA at that time, who was one of the greatest commissioners in history, because he didn't want to see him and the owners and, and everybody lose control of the process.

And LeBron took that control, and he changed it for everybody.

And he became somewhat of a villain, which was very, very unfair.

So then what do you prepare? Do you prepare for a feeling? Do you prepare for, um, just a, a moment that you know is going to be huge? How do you then get ready for something like that, that you know is going to shift the way that the power balance of the NBA is?

Walk us through how you see this whole story, if you would.

Well, he was given a red card in the game against Bosnia-Herzegovina.

He had scored a goal, and then he was removed from the game for the rest of it after this.

The red card was, it went to the replay, Larry, and the replay determined that he should be given a red card.

It was bad judgment at the time.

When things are slowed down in the nature that you see them, it's not in real time.

And so it can be amplified.

So if those factoids are right, how does it look for us? What's your commentating assessment?

How did you get to interview Ali when you were 17?

[chuckles] Well, I was a videotape editor, Russ, for ABC, uh, station in, uh, in Denver.

And, um, you know, all of the guys who were in the union took the buyout because they were converting from film to videotape.

So they hired a bunch of young kids from the University of Colorado and some of the interns who had been there, and I was one of them.

So I was editing the Broncos with Red Miller show as he was getting ready for the draft in my little cubicle in Denver at 7:00 a.m. And in came running the assignment editor, and she said, "Muhammad Ali's two and a half hours early out at old Stapleton International Airport.

Go interview him.

You know something about sports." I said, "Yeah." I'd never done an interview before, and I was dressed like this.

Tell me about the Hall of Excellence.

How did you get to interview Ali when you were 17?

[chuckles] Well, I was a videotape editor, Russ, for ABC, uh, station in, uh, in Denver.

And, um, you know, all of the guys who were in the union took the buyout because they were converting from film to videotape.

So they hired a bunch of young kids from the University of Colorado and some of the interns who had been there, and I was one of them.

So I was editing the Broncos with Red Miller show as he was getting ready for the draft in my little cubicle in Denver at 7:00 a.m. And in came running the assignment editor, and she said, "Muhammad Ali's two and a half hours early out at old Stapleton International Airport.

Go interview him.

You know something about sports." I said, "Yeah." I'd never done an interview before, and I was dressed like this.

Tell me about the Hall of Excellence.

It was great.

Beyond that, that was really, that was really kind and, you know, that touched me.

I really appreciate it, uh, really appreciate it, Sean.

But Bill is, Bill is a genius, okay? Bill has instantaneous recall.

Um, he's so far ahead of all of these other people.

He's won eight Super Bowls, and he can tell you about some innocuous play when he was coaching as an assistant coach, Denver Broncos, back in the '70s, okay? And he can pull it up, and he can tell you all 22 that were on the field and what they did and how they did it, and it's just astonishing, his knowledge of football history, how he's kept current, contemporary, and, uh, you know, he's really...

You know, it's, it's be- It...

You know, how are we gonna look back at this event that took place at the White House last night in your view, and what was your overall take on it?

Can you tell me where you were, how that came about, and how the decision came about afterward?

Maverick Carter was at the game with Ari Emanuel, who's the head of WME, and they were sitting courtside.

And it was one of the early rounds, and I knew that LeBron was gonna be a free agent.

I had interviewed him when he was in high school, and I had done his first game on ESPN against the Sacramento Kings.

So I just went over to, uh, Maverick and Ari and said, you know, "I'd like to be the first guy to be able to interview LeBron after he decides where he's going to go." And we started talking.

I said, "You know, why don't we just do a TV show, call it The Decision?" And Ari Emanuel turned to Maverick and said, "That's a great idea.

That's brilliant." And Maverick said, "Okay, let's do that." So I didn't hear from them for a few weeks or whatever the passage of time was.

You mentioned there was a pensive sort of air to it, but he himself, did he seem like somebody who was, as he said, making a difficult decision and potentially hurting a large fan base?

Can you tell me where you were, how that came about, and how the decision came about afterward?

Maverick Carter was at the game with Ari Emanuel, who's the head of WME, and they were sitting courtside.

And it was one of the early rounds.

And I knew that LeBron was gonna be a free agent.

I had interviewed him when he was in high school, and I had done his first game on ESPN against the Sacramento Kings.

So I just went over to, uh, Maverick and Ari and said, you know, "I'd like to be the first guy to be able to interview LeBron after he decides where he's going to go." And we started talking.

I said, "You know, why don't we just do a TV show, call it The Decision?" And Ari Emanuel turned to Maverick and said, "That's a great idea.

You mentioned there was a pensive sort of air to it, but he himself, did he seem like somebody who was, as he said, making a difficult decision and potentially hurting a large fan base?

I know you're doing a podcast, and you've done a bunch of the media stuff, but back then it was a totally different animal than now.

Oh, my God.

Well, there was only three networks.

Wasn't the advent of cable television, and then cable came along, and so that changed everything, and then the proliferation of, uh, of talk radio, and then the internet finally arrived, and now we have streaming.

So, you know, it's just all, you know, it's just all come together in a hurry.

But, you know, you could kind of see it, but you didn't expect it because when I-

Unbelievable

... it's all over the place.

I know you're doing a podcast, and you've done a bunch of the media stuff, but back then it was a totally different animal than now.

Oh, my God.

Well, there was only three networks.

Wasn't the advent of cable television, and then cable came along, and so that changed everything.

And then the proliferation of, uh, of talk radio, and then the internet finally arrived, and now we have streaming.

So, you know, it's just all, you know, it's just all come together in a hurry.

I, but, you know, you could kind of see it, but you didn't expect it.

Yeah

Wow

...

the gold shoes.

One shoe, only one gold shoe.

The other one's with his coach.

We got the other gold shoe when he won the 200 and the 400 in '96 sta- sitting right next to the torch that lit Muhammad Ali's torch to, uh, you know, when he stood up there with Parkinson's and, and, and inspired the world.

Uh, so we have that as well.

Yes.

48 years.

I love it.

I love it.

My first interview was Muhammad Ali.

Really? I was a videotape editor.

What was that like? I'm- I'm- I- I've watched the clips.

He was so savvy with his wordplay.

Oh.

Is Tom Brady nostalgic? Does h- is he a collector?

He is.

He's been collecting things since the day he went to the catch and he came home with that styrofoam finger number one that he was waving when Dwight Clark, uh, caught that pass from Joe Montana.

He collected cards.

Uh, he's very into this.

He comes in here and he spends hours, and he's just astonished.

He's, he's, he's moved by it because, you know, Tom has often said that, "Anybody can be great.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, how does baseball honor Pete Rose?

Dan, I've always said this: we do not live in the Soviet Union.

Pete Rose accomplishments are his accomplishments, and we should not be trying to erase them.

What he did on the field was the greatest hitter of all time, by the numbers, and that should be acknowledged, and he should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

By the same token, while it was coupled, there's consequence for action.

And he walked in front of that sign.

That sign didn't say, "No steroids." It didn't say, "No domestic abuse." It, it said, "No gambling." And he saw that sign 30,000 times.

Yeah.