yeah what is like you know the main what do you think that the main thing is that people are taking away like not necessarily your intention like you know because you write something and then how people decipher it is different what are people taking away from it

i mean how what are people taking away from the book i mean i mean lots of people i can only base it on what people are actually just saying like for some people it's helped them heal from heartbreak from others I've had people feel like this completely changed my relationship with my dad someone said that they completely changed their relationship with their spouse a lot of people are just like you know finding their power again um the you know the reaction to the book has been like incredible and like beyond my wildest imagination and um you know, I, it's just been, it's been great.

I think it's proof that when you really care about something and you really work hard, you know, there's results.

I mean, I worked really, really hard on that book and not just on the writing of that book.

That was something that I've been, that was 10 years of, of, my life that was put into that book.

And yeah, it's just a really, it's a really great feeling.

So I think people have, I think it's been really helping people a lot.

If they're making it about the other more often than not, might not be the greatest place.

... maintaining it, and people overlook these things, you know? They're-

But all relationships too, with your family, with your friends, with your coworkers, and yes, who you choose to partner with is the most important decision you will ever make.

But it also means if there's some long-standing beefs with certain people, see if you can re- can release it or address it, fix it, because that will add, I think, to your longevity because it's the stress, right? I really believe in the mind-body connection.

I believe that the mind and the body are one.

I think that, um, most of the time when we are dealing with any sort of chronic things, there's an emotional component, and I know that to be true also because I've worked with hundreds of people with headaches who when they resolved a conflict with a key relationship in their life, whether that was a business partner, whether that was their lover, whether that was their mom, their dad, their sibling, the headache went away.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So I, I think of it as sort of like a trilogy.

What happens when we depend on our partner to make us happy?

Um, catastrophe.

So here's, here's the paradox.

I think that we need to be with someone who wants to make us happier, and that we wanna make, we wanna add value to each other's lives.

We wanna make the path easier, but no one can walk our path but ourselves.

And so what happens is that when...

And it's unconscious, you know, and it's, part of it is also conditioning.

Guarded.

What happens when we depend on our partner to make us happy?

Um, catastrophe.

So here's, here's the paradox: I think that we need to be with someone who wants to make us happier, and that we wanna make- we wanna add value to each other's lives.

We wanna make the path easier, but no one can walk our path but ourselves.

And so what happens is that when...

And it's unconscious, you know, and it's... part of it is also conditioning.

It's like, "Be with someone who makes you happy," this or that, you know? The problem is that if you don't feel at least mostly whole, you know, we all have our things that we're dealing with, but if you don't...

Guarded.

[laughing]

[laughing] Well, I'm not gonna cry, because here's the good news.

Um, we talked about purpose and meaning.

I've created so much purpose and meaning from that date, whi- which I will, uh, elaborate on in a moment, that, um, it, the, it's lost its...

It doesn't have any emotional charge for me anymore.

Partially because it was in 2014, and we're in 2025, but also because, um, the meaning that I give it is I wouldn't be sitting here today, I would not have written this book, had that not happened.

So June 2nd, 2014, basically, I woke up to what was, uh, the end of a very early pregnancy.

And that's when I trot out the beans, but, uh-

Yeah, yeah.

If you label it as, "This is my future.

This is my next big thing.

This is my next career.

This is the first step towards transitioning out of this job I hate," if you do that, you will almost certainly never start because there is so much anxiety that you have just injected into it.

Whereas if it's, "You know what? I, this style thing is, is actually kind of interesting.

I wonder, you know, maybe the next time I go shopping, I should try pulling out a couple of pieces that I wouldn't normally and see what happens.

In the context of a, a newer relationship though, like how is it different?

Like, what am I getting wrong about dating? That seems to be the top question.

So there's a few things.

One is it shouldn't just be the apps.

I don't tell people, "Get off the apps." Sometimes I say, "Get on the apps," but if you just focus on that, that's gonna burn you out, and it's gonna exhaust you, and you're meeting a bunch of strangers.

So that's, like, another mistake that people make is that they're impatient.

It's not every day that you meet someone who you want to build a relationship with.

Like, it's just not that easy, but you have to get out there.

So how do we slow it down, and how do we take it back to baseline?

Like, what am I getting wrong about dating? That seems to be the top question.

So there's a few things.

One is, it shouldn't just be the apps.

I don't tell people, "Get off the apps." Sometimes I say, "Get on the apps." But if you just focus on that, that's gonna burn you out, and it's gonna exhaust you, and you're meeting a bunch of strangers.

So that's, like, another mistake that people make, is that they're impatient.

It's not every day that you meet someone who you want to build a relationship with.

Like, it's just not that easy.

(laughs)

... and to just be available.

Yes.

The feminine always wants the presence, always wants presence.

I think where women are getting it wrong with men is wanting this perfect communicator, and I...

And so many men are not raised to emote in that way, the same way that women are.

And I say, you know, choose the guy who's really present for your emotions, and if he's having a hard time emoting, make it safe for him to emote, because he's going to think that you are gonna use it against him.

Because if he says something that triggers some insecurity inside you, you have to self-regulate and not make it all about your insecurity, and you have to then be present for him saying something that might, in that moment, if your mi- if you were to allow your mind to really get the best of you, is gonna feel like abandonment or is going to feel unsafe.

but, like, maybe one insight that is overlooked or underappreciated in this, you know, context of navigating relationships.

And I'm curious, I, I saw something that you talked about recently about why it's really hard to create a relationship with someone who's not invested in you, and I'm curious, what are the, the signs that you can tell whether someone is invested in you or not? And why can you not build a relationship with someone who's not showing you these signs of investment?

Okay, so when someone is invested in you, like if you're starting to see someone, they actually are interested in you as a person.

They wanna know your story, they wanna know the things that make you happy, they wanna thing- they wanna know the things that make you sad, and they are carving out space in their life for you.

Versus someone who's (clears throat) always busy, um, not really interested in getting to know you on a deeper level, not really wanting to know your story, not wanting to, not making time to spend time with you.

You know, time is such a precious, preci- precious resource for all of us, and most of the time, you know, like if we're not making time for someone, we're not that interested.

You know, I guess sometimes it's that they r- you know, someone really is busy, but anything that you really want, anything that you really wanna know, anything that you really wanna acquire, anything that you want to, uh, build something with, you're gonna make the time.

So it's investing time, it's investing energy, and someone really wanting to know you.

Yes, and that takes courage.

And I'm curious, I- I saw something that you talked about recently about why it's really hard to create a relationship with someone who's not invested in you, and I'm curious, what are the- the signs that you can tell whether someone is invested in you or not, and why can you not build a relationship with someone who's not showing you these signs of investment?

Okay, so when someone is invested in you, like if you're starting to see someone, they actually are interested in you as a person. They wanna know your story, they wanna know the things that make you happy, they wanna thin- they wanna know the things that make you sad, and they are carving out space in their life for you. Versus someone who's (clears throat) always busy, um, not really interested in getting to know you on a deeper level, not really wanting to know your story, not wanting to- not making time to spend time with you. You know, time is such a precious, preci- precious resource for all of us, and most of the time, you know, like if we're not making time for someone, we're not that interested. You know, I guess sometimes it's that they r- you know, someone really is busy, but anything that you really want, anything that you really wanna know, anything that you really wanna acquire, anything that you want to, uh, build something with, you're gonna make the time. So it's investing time, it's investing energy, and someone really wanting to know you. They're asking questions. They wanna know about your childhood. They wanna know about your- your hobbies. They want... it's not just, "Oh, let me vet you to see if you're the right person for me." It's like, "I'm actually very interested in you," and that's- I mean, that's attraction. And when we're attracted to someone, we want to do that, and then when we start to develop an emotional bond with someone, we want to know even more. And, um, there are some people who are just not investing at the level that you are. You know, they're not putting in... So another part of this is- so I- so I was speaking a little bit more to like the beginning stages, but then when things get-... you're, it's like, okay, you're in a rela- you're, quote unquote, "in a relationship." You're not taking the time to work on what needs to be worked on inside of yourself and in the relationship to make the relationship wonderful. And because it really... A relationship is something that is built, and it's, it's only as healthy as the two people are behaving in it. So, you can't... I think that one of the biggest myths out there is, "Well, a relationship should just be easy." And I think that, um, it's, it's, well, there's a fine line. You have to know where, where you draw the line when something is just too hard.

Yes, and that takes courage.

It's, yeah, it takes so much courage. It's not, it's not just, what am I doing in the therapy office? What am I doing when I'm sitting on the couch with my loved one, with my partner, and, you know, they're having a hard day, and I don't really feel like listening to it? I'm tired, not in the mood. Am I going to kind of lose presence and not pay attention when they're having a hard day because I'm not in the mood? Or am I going to take a deep breath and show up for my partner, even though I'm not in the mood? That's healing, because in those moments, you're overcoming, and you're breaking patterns that you did in the past that w- did not help your relationship, and you are being a better person inside of the relationship. That's healing. And you sl- learn, and you actually gain a stronger sense of self when you do things that are good for you and f- good for your relationship. When you do things that challenge you, rather than, you know... It's like the road less traveled. The easy route, you're never gonna build your sense of wholeness and your self-esteem. You have to do things that challenge you. This is one of the things I talk about in the book. It's like, that... You have to do some things that challenge you. And so it's in those seemingly very insignificant moments in a relationship, where you're like, "Oh, I can go this way, which is just like what I've always done, or I can go this way even though I'm not in the mood. I'm gonna make the choice to go this way." And you feel better about yourself, because you've transcended something in yourself. And then that's healing, that healing is happening there. So this idea that some people definitely need a timeout and they need to do work on themselves. I know you did that. I mean, lots of people have to do that. I've done that, where... Uh, uh, plenty of people have said, "You are not ready to be in a relationship. You are not ready." But other people, it's like, "Okay, you're ready enough. And the rest, you're gonna have to do when you're with the person, because you'll lear-" Because we, how can we build our sense of self-esteem and self-worth and self-acceptance if we're not bouncing off the reflection of other people and how they see us? We know we don't exist in a vacuum. So people often ask me, "Well, how do you know you're ready? How do you know you've healed enough? How do you know you're ready for a relationship?" Well, I mean, there's a lot of, when you... Well, number one, when you realize that there is no the one. You choose who the one will be, and you're gonna have to make that choice many times throughout your relationship. Because if you're thinking 10, 20, 30, for the rest of your life with someone, you could love them, and you can have a great relationship, but you think there's not gonna be days where you actually have to choose love. Of course. You're ready for a relationship when you realize there is just no one who's perfect, and you are going to have to decide. You have to know what is tolerable, what, versus what is intolerable. Because there's gonna be... You have to have a lot of tolerance, because we are complex. We're, we can be highly annoying. We can be highly weird. We've got our stuff. We've got neuroses. We got our stuff. What are your deal-breakers? What's absolutely intolerable, and can you tolerate the rest? People who have really the most impressive, beautiful, long-lasting relationships, they are not judgmental. They're not tolerating garbage from the other person.

So how do we slow it down, and how do we take it back to baseline?

Number one is there is no the one.

[laughs] There really isn't.

I mean, we actually choose who the one is, and this is, this is really, really important.

Love, as I'm sure you know, is a choice.

Like, it's a feeling, for sure, but we're so conditioned to believe that love is just a feeling as opposed to a choice, and that when, if you do decide to be with someone long term, you're going to have to make that choice many, many times throughout your relationship, which is, "I choose you," right? So people wanna rush it, and so what they do, and what I've done, is that we lie to ourselves, and it's also because we've been lied by society that there is, and romanticism, that there is this one person who's gonna come into your life and rescue you and make your life better, and that once you find that person, like, everything becomes easier.

And, and I'm certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships, but the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone, the more you are going to be challenged to overcome and transcend old things and old patterning to actually love someone and to do love, to, it, where, where it's a verb and not just a feeling.

Mm-hmm.

So how do we slow it down, and how do we take it back to baseline?

Number one is there is no the one.

[laughs] There really isn't.

I mean, we actually choose who the one is, and this is, this is really, really important.

Love, as I'm sure you know, is a choice.

Like, it's a feeling, for sure, but we're so conditioned to believe that love is just a feeling as opposed to a choice, and that when, if you do decide to be with someone long term, you're going to have to make that choice many, many times throughout your relationship, which is, "I choose you," right? So people wanna rush it, and so what they do, and what I've done, is that we lie to ourselves, and it's also because we've been lied by society that there is, and romanticism, that there is this one person who's gonna come into your life and rescue you and make your life better, and that once you find that person, like, everything becomes easier.

And, and I'm certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships, but the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone.

Mm-hmm.

Gets you in.

Gets you in and gets you, hooks you.

Yeah.

So when I started seeing him, I thought...

When we got married, I was 38, and I thought, "Well, you know, I'm older, I'm wiser, I've been working with people for so many years, I know what I'm doing." But boy, did I not know what I was doing.

And so when our relationship leading up to marriage, I always say was about 90% good because we were actually very compatible, and we got along really well in many different ways.

But 10% was very problematic.

That's, that's too long

[laughs]

... you know, that they are a narcissist.

And throwing it around, like, every time, like, I also think it's thrown around...

It's actually thrown around between men and women.

But someone doesn't like you, they're a narcissist.

You know, someone is...

Uh, you know, we all have a tendency to get selfish in relationships even when we're not selfish people in general.

Okay, Jillian, tell us about your new book coming out.