Can you share some of those reasons and what you see in your work?

Oh, yes.

I mean, that's a big question, a very, very important one.

We could talk about it for days, but yes, in my work, I'm often seeing women who are wrestling with becoming parents.

So I think that, unfortunately, we live in a culture that has these sort of untenable expectations and assumptions that all women want to have children, usually more than one.

This gets us into trouble because where is the space? Where is the dialogue? You know, for people to really talk about the realities of women who decide not to have children, so childless by choice, or conversely, women who have tried and tried and tried, and for a number of reasons, may not be able to have children or have decided to stop with, you know, the loss after loss after loss or how prohibitive it is to, you know, spend all this money on IVF, for example.

So there are so many reasons why women end up, you know, with families or don't end up with families.

How do you approach that with clients or how do you recommend they approach it on those days where it feels like it's all come back and all the progress you've made is gone? Yeah.

It's

a lot.

It is.

It's really hard.

Yeah.

I think in retrospect, yeah, I think I burned myself to the ground with how much I gave and gave with regard to trying to get the book as much readers, you know, in front of as many readers as possible.

And it was so exciting and I love that process, but I don't think I realized how low my tank was by the end of that episode.

But for you, because this is your area of expertise, I was just selfishly curious what you thought about the topic of like, what is this busyness telling us? Or how are you finding meaning in difficult moments

Of course.

As you mentioned, I'm a Los Angeles-based psychologist, and I specialize in women's reproductive and maternal mental health and have done so for almost two decades at this point.

And prior to pursuing my PhD, I worked in public health, so I worked in international women's rights and reproductive health.

And, you know, up until that point, I had sort of, you know, a genuine passion for these topics, but I hadn't lived anything necessarily sort of in my own body from a corporeal perspective.

It was all sort of theoretical and because, you know, mostly based out of the fact that I myself am a woman and wanted to help women around the world, uh, in this particular area.

And then at 16 weeks along in my second pregnancy, I had a miscarriage while I was home by myself.

I was instructed by phone by my OBGYN how to cut the umbilical cord and promptly began to hemorrhage.

And to hear that you had to do it at home and cut your own umbilical cord and all that, like it is, oh my goodness, just so mind-boggling to hear.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I'm happy to, and I, I do think you bring up in a very important point, which is to say that, uh, I had never, and I mean never, heard a story like this in the context of my clinical office.

So yes, a majority of losses, you know, happen, uh, through finding out that there is no longer a heartbeat.

So you go to your doctor, and you think you're going to a routine, uh, appointment, and you find out, you know, this, this devastating news.

Um- And/or people begin to bleed and then go into their doctor only to find out that they're having a miscarriage.

For me, it was the day before.

Um, in those days and weeks that followed, what was life like? What-- How did you feel? How did you navigate the world?

Mm.

You know, that's a big part of my work.

I'm a psychologist and I specialize in women's reproductive and maternal mental health, and I've done so for almost two decades now.

And, you know, I see so much in my practice women who go through pregnancy loss and feel like they can't sort of share the gory details of their grief, and that they can't own just how badly they feel because they're afraid that other people will feel infected by it, or that, you know, their grief will scare them, or that it's, it comes off as, quote, unquote, you know, negative somehow.

And I feel, in a way, the, the, the same kind of goes for breast cancer.

I don't see a lot of patients in my practice who have cancer, but after my diagnosis, it was really just, I was kind of lambasted by the fact that people came at me so quickly with the, and I don't know if, if you have this in your culture as well, but with this expression, "You're a warrior.

You'll get through this.

[laughs]

Yeah

... and I never would've met you otherwise type of feeling.

You know, it was just, it was beautiful and inspiring and, you know, and also there's so much anguish that we could commune around.

I think that just really...

I mean, I, I remember when that piece came out.

I was, like, numb for maybe a week.

I mean, I just taking it all in and seeing, you know, its viral nature.

Yeah.

... let- this really get into this book.

Yeah.

Thank you.

So I'm a psychologist, and I specialize in women's reproductive and maternal mental health, and have done so for about 15 years at this point.

And I come to the field with a background in public health and worked in international women's rights, women's health.

So when I pursued my PhD, I wanted to bring all of my interests together in my clinical practice.

So at the time, it was really just a passion about women, women's bodies, what we go through the course of our lives.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Taking their emotional temperature and being aware of their own, as well.

And I think being able to talk about that openly can make all the difference.

I've had a lot of partners call me to schedule an appointment on their wife's behalf, and so if people are up for therapy and open to it and are living in a place where somebody specializes in it and can afford it, I think that can be an important next step.

But also checking in, it can be with your OBGYN.

It could even be with the pediatrician.

But I think-... you know, your partner's living with you, so they're the person that would know probably the most.

Mm

How did you have an umbilical cord? Can you tell us in as much detail as you're comfortable?

Yes, I mean, I appreciate you asking.

I feel like most people sidestep these vulnerable questions because it makes them so uncomfortable.

So I really appreciate you wanting to know.

Yeah, I mean, two days prior, I started spotting and I went to see my doctor and the heartbeat was fine and the placenta was where it should be.

And I just had a gut feeling.

I just sort of felt like there was no coming back from this.

Why did you feel the need to do that?

How did you have an umbilical cord? Can you tell us in as much detail as you're comfortable?

Yes, I mean, I appreciate you asking.

I feel like most people sidestep these vulnerable questions because it makes them so uncomfortable.

So I really appreciate you wanting to know.

Yeah, I mean, two days prior, I started spotting and I went to see my doctor and the heartbeat was fine and the placenta was where it should be.

And I just had a gut feeling.

I just sort of felt like there was no coming back from this.

Why did you feel the need to do that?