I, I wanna press into that a little bit more [laughs] with you, but I'll let Jessie respond and, and chime in first.

I think it's that push/pull so that we don't end up in gutters, right? Why we're better, where we're better together, and together Adam and Eve make a complete image of God.

And so, you know, not having spir-- uh, biological children, but having spiritual children, asking the same thing over them.

Um, like, "God, who, who are they? What, what was the gift you gave what we did together?" So in leadership role, so running an organization, what was the gift you gave the organization and this person? You know, what was, what was the need that you see that the organization has, the community has, that this person gets to come help be a p- be a part of filling? And I think we started praying that way because we were young, and we didn't have strategy, and we didn't know how to actually build an organization.

I mean, I don't know how to build an organization at the age of 22, but I do know how to pray and ask God to send people.

And so, so what was the identity? What was the gift that they came as? And saying, you know, "Okay, how do we, how do we receive that from them? Wow, I, I really wish that they were better at something [laughs] than they are." Like, like receiving a lot of people who are in process or incomplete or, you know, not a superstar, and yet the Lord's like, "No, this is my gift to you, and, and you're gonna grow together.

You're gonna be together in this." So for me, it-- for me, I have the push/pull of, you know, how do I step back in a way that lets them be brave enough to step forward? 'Cause I'm, I'm pretty intense personality.

Your assignment is greater than you realize if you can operate in the truth of who you are and allow your being to inform all that you do."

Where do you see that clash coming into play in a lot of communities?

Yeah, I think people are used to praying with each other about things in our life.

You know, God, what's an answer I need for this situation? Am I supposed to do A or do B? And I just wonder how many communities, when they pray together, actually just sit with each other and say, you know, God, who do you say Jesse is right now? How do you see Jesse in this situation? Asking for God's narrative, God's interpretation of the events and the situation.

And when you do that, because I've been in communities that do that, and the praying feels...

It can feel unproductive to those who want an answer, who want a next step.

But to sit and linger and have other people sit and imagine with you what God might be singing over you.

Imagine how God might be narrating the moment in your story.

I don't know if any of that resonates with you guys.

So what do you guys think we can be learning from a story like that or an image like that?

So if we think about it in terms of identity, like Jacob had one identity that he was living into of being a deceiver and a heel grabber.

And this is a turning point for him, right? When God, he encounters God and God meets him in the middle of things he's not supposed to be doing, things he should, as you said, should be ashamed of, shameful moment in his life.

Like God is there and God changes everything.

who he is and helps him know who he's always been created to be.

So I think for me, and I think about the story, there's an identity change that God is helping happen there.

But it makes you ask the follow-up question, was he named wrong in the first place? Was there something wrong with the beginning of his, you know, everyone has an origin story.

He intended us for there to be these movements and growth throughout our lifetime.

Go ahead, Jessi.

Jessi.Yeah, I mean, I, so I kinda think about it like this, and, and this is, and it's this conversation that exposes the false narrative of maturity to be perfection.

Because God's goal for us is not to be perfect.

And when we think that it is, then sin becomes, and, and, and these things that like when we don't do it right become a reason for separation, and we hide out of fear.

So, so, so the actual, the problem is not that we're imperfect.

The problem is that we buy into the false narrative that we should hide and be ashamed when we do something wrong.

And as any good parent knows, you wanna know when your kids do something wrong.

And so discovering our narrative is really about finding our place in the meta-narrative of God in Christ.

Jesse, what are you thinking?

Well, it's also super personal, right? So I think about the way that God speaks to me versus the way he speaks to Julia or my husband or my brother or you.

And it's slightly different because my antenna of my identity is different.

And when God speaks to you, he is speaking to who he created you to be.

And there is a tone, there is a frequency, there are ways that he created you to hear him.

And so he speaks to you in the way that he created you to hear him.

So my brother is very visual.

He's speaking to the heart of the matter, not just what they need to feel or not, but he's using all of it for his glory and for their redemption.