Did you, growing up, when you began to think, "I maybe wanna pursue comedy as a profession," did you have role models?

Once in a while, people ask me a question about, like, mentorship, and the truth is, is that I did not, have not had mentors in my life, and it's partly because of my own, um, independence, which is a strength for me in many ways, but it's very hard for me to ask for help.

People presume I don't need help.

So my role models have been somewhat indirect.

But in comedy, I was really lucky to partner with a comedy partner with whom I still work, Jordan Morris, he and I co-host the podcast "Jordan, Jesse, Go!" who was really serious about being a success and also was really serious about being a good partner to me, and still is.

And not that our relationship has always been perfect, but, I mean, when you consider it's been 25 years, it's like we're doing great.

And when we were in college, we were lucky enough to meet some people in the San Francisco comedy world.

What did you learn from all the different people you talked to?

Mm-hmm.

Um, and when it comes to formality, we of course have the generation, in particularly in the generation that went before you and I, I'm a Millennial and you're a Gen X-er, um, there was the idea that previous generations, you know, forced us to wear a monkey suit and a, you know, a, a noose around our neck, and they rebelled against the formal structures, the relatively formal structures of clothing.

So this isn't, um...

Sometimes people will say, "Well, these are not natural law," you know? "These are examples of cultural constructs." And what I would say in return to that is, that is absolutely the case.

And if you wish to live- With others, you will share a culture.

Mm.

And the truth is that what you need to do is think about who else will be at this event, w- how will they dress, and how will they interpret how I dress? And decide on that basis what clothes you will wear.

Now, that ...

She also loves burritos, but the LA burritos she loves and the San Fran ones Jesse loves are really different.

The classic San Francisco burrito is, I'm gonna say, uh, nine inches long, um, and pretty thick.

I mean, the thickness of the top of a drinking glass at least.

It, it, it involves rice, which Southern California people don't care for.

You get some avocado.

You get some sour cream.

You get some rice.

This issue came up when I was talking to Jesse Thorn.

Right.

Um, they will try and sell you this thing about what a nerd they are, and frankly, like, I'm kind of a nerd.

I'm not a sc- super committed nerd, but I'm kind of a nerd, and at no point do I have this feeling like, "Yeah, I'm gonna convince these people what a fucking huge nerd I am."

That's right.

But I would, I would imagine that both of, both of you guys have, have professional comedy backgrounds, you know? And I would imagine that when you do something normal, like when you do something that is not a comedy, because on The Daily Habit, Jordan, you're doing basically comedy stuff.

But when you go out and, and cover something straight or when you do something for Dancing with the Stars, that all of those people who are used to dealing with the Mario Lopez's of the world are just amazed that there's a brain inside your head.

Yeah.

So if you're a fan of The Flophouse or you're a fan of Judge John Hodgman, we are supported by your direct support.

That is like what makes our work possible.

So please go to maximumfun.org/join.

We wanna have a big start to the Max Fun drive.

We've got so much stuff for the next two weeks planned.

Uh, it's gonna be such a great time.

... and they were babies.

They didn't think you would know Bill Withers?

Well, at that point, he had not done any media in 20 years.

He had done no press.

He had done one morning radio interview with a friend of his.

He quit the business after Just The Two Of Us, which was a record that he put out with Grover Washington specifically because he hated his record label so much.

It was in this fancy hotel in Pasadena with Bill Withers in a courtyard being interviewed by Pasadena Magazine (laughs).

And I went in there and he took me for a fool initially, because the reason he quit the business was because he did not suffer fools, right? This is a guy who only started in the music business as a grown adult after a career in the Navy.

This is what Cory Doctorow calls "enshittification."

(laughs)

Little karate guy coming in.

Yeah.

Here, here's a que- here's a bullseye question for you.

(laughs)

Thank you.

Have you ever had Bullz-Eye barbecue sauce?

Yeah.