And if you are not autistic, the trauma piece...

I think it is, it is really difficult.

People don't seem to like giving labels to children.

And, uh, so if someone has been traumatized, they say, "Well, w- there's so much trauma here, we can't say whether it's autism or not." But what this work, uh, that they have been doing basically turned this whole thing on its head and said that people who have been traumatized, people who have had adverse childhood experiences, are actually more likely to be neurodivergent.

And I think because of the work that we've been doing about hypermobility, this brain-body type, that neurodivergent people, because of this brain-body type, are more likely to experience trauma differently.

So we're in the process, Helen and Ruchika and I and a woman called Clare Jamieson, of rewriting that article.

It's called The Vantage Point, basically saying that if you take into consideration these factors and the brain-body type, we've got the opportunity for intervention.

[laughs]