It's, it's, still it's very sweet it's a very very wonderful story

yeah i um i think um so it's it's funny actually because nollie would be the correct correct way to pronounce it in the context of her full name and she in in the story i wrote it as nollie and that's like no how she how she tells uh nisha is the correct way to do it which like is is based on like me actually working with a lot of like indian folks at the uh at a call center that i used to work at and uh there being a close friend of mine that was just like she had a name that was difficult to pronounce so she just told everybody the incorrect pronunciation was was the right way and then like after knowing her for six months she was like oh no it's actually i was like wait is your name pronounced this way and she was like oh yeah that's That's the right way to say my name.

I just don't bother telling people that anymore.

They can't get it right.

And like, yeah, she has a name that is very difficult to pronounce.

It's longer than that, but she cuts it down to Noli.

And She's one of my favorite characters in this story to write just because she's much more forward and says what she's thinking.

Do you use sensitivity readers for any aspects of this?

Um, give me the front counter pitch, and then I'll, then I'll dig in some.

Uh, so for, uh, anybody who's read the first Navigating With You, obviously that's a, uh, a book about two girls who are new in school in Durham, North Carolina.

They're both fr- coming from different places, have different issues, and connect over this, uh, this one manga that they were both into as kids but neither of them have ever finished.

So they decide to put together their own little book club for just the two of them, uh, and they're gonna have a competition to track down these books and finally read them all.

Uh, and over the course of this, this very quickly goes from being a competition to a friendship to a relationship.

Um, but it's all about ...

I tell people, uh, at cons, it's about, uh, you know, you're bonding and forming a, an unstoppable relationship, uh, over your love of obscure manga, uh, which I feel like most of us who are in comics have had some version of that at some point, of just, like, you found the one other person that likes that book you like, and now you're best friends forever.

Right

I'm like, it's a shame people don't like who doesn't like magical dogs representing like the great archetypes of like power levels and concepts.

Yeah, I, you know, I'm fairly certain.

that the people who are banning these things have not read them.

And I'm fairly certain that this one in particular, like a lot of the books that are on this, you know, Texas put out this list of like 20,000 books, which is an insane number of books to ban.

And a few years ago would have been completely unthinkable.

Right.

and they haven't really said they haven't felt that there's a reason they have to explain things they can just say whatever they want to about them and you know just let it be taken as truth I mean the thing for me is like I'm always happy to sort of get out there and talk about these books and champion band books because I think it's very clear with the dog night like this is a book that is about a kid trying to find their place in the world and trying to understand who they are and how they fit in uh it's not a propaganda piece in any way it's not something that is even about coming out there's no sex there's very little violence um and what violence there is this fantasy violence so you know it's um it's very clear that there's only one of two reasons this could possibly be banned either the kids to to feel comfortable and represented and see people like themselves in books um which doesn't stop them from feeling the way they do it just stops them from feeling supported uh i might add and i mean the other option is that they hate dogs so right which is unfathomable yeah it could be either way uh but i i i like to believe I think, you know, perhaps the Republican Party just hates dogs.

And you introduce a whole new side of, um, like brand new characters, like, uh, carrie that we we get a hint of in the first one becomes a major second um a character in the second volume is there how do you decide to expand the world for the second volume

So are you often considering the variety of identities that you're writing about when you go looking for your artist and your editor and things like that? Or does that depend on whether or not it's a major publisher or not? Are they maybe fitting you? Would Mad Cave actually be pairing you with an artist in that sort of situation?

Mad Cave...

You know, has paired me with with artists and in both for both the books.

And, you know, we had to change artists between volumes because Casio has some of his own work that he's he's doing that he is cartooning.

He's a writer and an artist as well.

And they they managed to.

I mean, they they talk to me quite a bit about, you know, who we're looking at and we pass some ideas back and forth.

And Jeremy, do you want to talk about why?

We need to put this book in people's hands and bring calm and peace energy because this book has that summer break energy, has smashed it to world maybe destroyed energy, but it's okay because how do you balance comedy and danger without undercutting either one?

I mean, I think that's life.

Like that's, I think that's always what works for people is like, that's what life is.

It's not just one thing all the time.

The funny stuff is happening while the sad stuff is happening.

All the good stuff is happening.

You're trying to like balance all this stuff at the same time.

He's like, wait, what are you making me sing now?

Uh, what, what's keeping you going?

Oof.

Um, I think sometimes you gotta just remember who it is you create stuff for, um, you know, who the people are that this opinion really matters.

Because regardless of, of how good your story is, regardless of how well you tell the story, there's always gonna be p- people who don't like it, whether it's just that they prefer a different type of story, or they think this is something that's, you know, for a younger audience, or they, they think in some cases [laughs] it ought to be banned and it's morally reprehensible.

Um, you can't, you can't worry about every little person, which I think is something that every author, regardless of what you get told, has to learn for themselves.

Because there's always gonna be a moment where you see some, some guy on YouTube or Twitter or Tumblr or whatever else people are using these days that, that's like, "Oh, this is the worst thing I've ever read." Um, you know, you can't, you can't please everybody, and I think the important part is to, like, keep your eye on the sort of people that, that you want to, uh, that you wanna, uh, write these stories for, that you n- feel like need to experience them, even if that person is just, like, a younger version of you, right? Like, I think a lot of the, the stories that I write, even if the characters are, the specifics of them are very different, um, are, you know, characters that are, are telling stories and, and learning things that I needed to learn at that age, um, or that needed to be clear to me.

I, I remember, you know, just reading books in the last handful of years that are, you know, are told by, by different types of people than me, whether that be that they are women or non-binary folks, or, uh, or people of, of different races and everything, that it's like you see pieces of yourself in those other people.

[laughs]