So what was the team where you felt you were at your happiest and therefore performed at your best?

I mean, I had two teams that I was with for a long period of time, and probably the most happy was still BAR, which turned into Braun.

It just felt like family to me.

And also because we went from kind of nothing, fourth place was our best finish, I think, in 2003, to winning the world championship together and having our first victory together.

as a team so that for me was probably the team that stands out as the biggest family that I've worked with McLaren was different because I arrived there as a world champion and had won races but still they welcomed me like I didn't expect them to as they had Lewis as the as the number one driver if you like so both fantastic teams to work with very different bosses you know with Ron Dennis at the helm at McLaren and I really liked working with Ron unusual character sometimes tricky Yeah, you know having a conversation with Ron one-to-one could be tricky.

Yeah, but it could be awesome as well It could be really great, you know getting his opinion on things and he's been around the sport for many years Well with Alan Prost, Ayrton Senna and you know trying to control those two drivers under one roof I can't imagine how difficult it was.

So it was it was really nice working with him But to be fair, it was more like Martin Whitmarsh that I could work with on a day-to-day basis and felt, you know making the team felt I feel like my own was with Martin and the engineers.

What was going on at that point?

The life of a driver on race day is not just about getting in the cockpit and going for it, is it?

No, that was it.

That was it.

You know, I just put my crash helmet on, went racing, and it was easy.

No stress whatsoever.

But that's exactly what I wanted to portray because you didn't want to show weakness to your competitors.

But behind the scenes, yeah, I was a mess.

How do you create that we're all in this together culture? Especially when there are so many different sort of hierarchical orders within a race team,

Whatever he managed to dial into it, he dialed in pace, which, which looked great again.

It did, and this was, this was a really important one, I think, for Charles.

You know, this year's been tough.

Since he signed his extension [laughs] with Ferrari in Monaco, um, it's kind of been pretty disastrous for him up until this point.

Uh, and I...

So it's not the first time that's happened, I don't think, when people have signed a long-term deal [laughs] with Ferrari.

But, um, yeah, he's super quick, uh, always has been, but he's just made a lot of mistakes this year.

Where, where do you think he's gonna wind up? Do you think he's, there's enough evidence for him to stay at Red Bull?

Okay [laughs].

It wasn't just his presence, but that was already a kickstart.

You know, that was a good kickstart for the team.

But, yeah, his leadership, uh, his understanding of how a team needs to work together, getting rid of blame culture within a team, letting people be a bit more free within a team and, you know, come up with crazy ideas.

And sometimes they don't work, but they've gotta take risks, otherwise you're never gonna get to the front.

So it was a really good atmosphere when Ross was there.

2008 was made very difficult because we knew we were just concentrating on 2009.

But very Oscar-esque, I think is a good point to make.