What are your intersections or how do you describe what you do? How do all these things mash up and connect?

Well, in the beginning of my career, I was identified myself with the work that I was doing, right? I was a designer and it was really important that everybody knew that I was a designer.

So much so, actually, I was the Swedish designer even, you know, got that label.

And then when I left and started my own company, I started it with a really dumb kind of business model, which was I want to do stuff I've never done before, which isn't very sellable because people usually want an expert.

Yeah.

I started doing it like that.

And my only sort of criteria was to do interesting things.

And so the question is just, what does a curator notice about culture that maybe one as a consultant going in would miss? What does that give you? And where did that idea originally spring from?

And when I heard that, I lit up and I asked her to tell me more about that.

So a lot of the work that I do, I do together with a company called Abracademy.

And Abracademy works, it's a learning and development company that believes that the world needs more magic, basically.

And I work with literally everyone.

magic and magicians and we are not facilitators we are magilitators of course and in many of our sessions we co-create different types of culture rituals with companies to be able for them to sort of set...

It's such a lovely concept and name in terms of, you know, instead of...

We can be talking about, you know, designing sessions or we can talk about, you know, doing something that's a new way of working or, you know, trying to end this habit.

It's very feels very connected to the magic and the ritual in a way because it's oh The word that comes to mind for me is is like enchantment or you know that that yeah this pen that below, you know if you have the story then it becomes, it's not just the object, it's also this.

Mm.

What's an opportunity to release? Um, it really gives you a pause, and, uh, a different, different lens.

And the, the, uh, curation side of this is very much that you can choose items, right? You can, you can choose a cup or you can choose a chair.

Mm.

Uh, the sentiment is humbling and positive, I think.

Like, the idea of, um, the f- the emotions that it kind of evokes, but we're not a family, especially if you're working for somebody else-