So, yeah.

Uh, and then all of a sudden everyone said, "Well, maybe Jen was right." So you just gotta stick with it.

It might take a long time for you to be redeemed, but if you're speaking the truth, it will happen.

I always say the truth outs in the end.

Right

... culture.

And so having Sophie Cunningham in the WNBA, one of the most popular players, second most followers of any player in the WNBA, say, "Girls' sports should be for girls"-

Why don't other people take inspiration in that?

You know what, John? I thought that they would because she's gained 3 million followers in the last couple months.

She has the second most followers in the...

I know followers aren't everything, but it translates to money and endorsements when you're a pro athlete.

And I thought...

And she gained endorsements.

So I thought people would see that and they go, okay, I'm not going to lose my shirt.

How do we fix earlier in the system the sort of grooming, I don't know if that's the right word, but the sort of preconditioning that goes on?

teams.

So again, that's the agreement going in is that the team will field the best boys and girls together.

So that's fine.

That's the agreement going in.

What isn't fine is when you have a boy that enters a girls race, like we saw just this last week in Washington, a young man who had placed you know, really, really poorly just weeks before in a boy's race who got second in a major girl's race in Oregon, sorry, in Washington.

That's not fair.

As far as girls competing in boys, let's be clear.

What would you say to that situation, Jennifer?

how long

ago.

I knew everybody in the company.

Everybody loved me.

I built my career there.

I helped people build careers there.

And here I was, not just out of San Francisco and out of Levi's, out of all of corporate America.

And when that happens, that elevates them and it gives them something far more valuable that's working for them than just a paycheck.

[laughs]

Um, do the coaches want them young so that they can be manipulated and abused? Um, but, you know, very young girls, a very narrow window of opportunity in the sport, although that is changing, and I think that's a good thing.

Uh, it just lent itself, and it's an individual sport where I think the coach-athlete relationship is more intense in a sense.

Uh, but I was 14 years old when I moved away from home.

I lived with a coach.

I was, you know, without my parents around.

I was training seven, eight hours a day.

What should we make of that?

Yes

... uh, and to test for sex, just like the International Olympic Committee has said they are going to do, the biggest and most important governing body in all of sport, and just like the Women's Professional Tennis Association has decided to do starting now, the WTA.

So it's not like this is, um, unheard of.

It's happening in very large, very elite sporting, governing sport bodies.

I think the WNBA, I think there's two reasons.

I think that they are still very captured by this, you know, for lack of a better word, woke ideology.

Yes

... it's a lie.

That particular game, I want to get to that in a moment, but your thoughts about this dust-up with Ennis Cantor freedom?

They just keep stepping in it, Dana.

They censor any fan that supports Sophie.

They censor any fan that makes any sort of statement about biology.

Apparently biology interferes with the league's politics.

Riley and I were at a game in Chicago a few weeks ago.

She was told she couldn't have a sign that said thank you.

What's the inside scoop about how much the very small trans community is having an impact on the decision-making for promotion at the WNBA?

It is.

It's so crazy, Link, but I do want to point out, so I've been to two games.

I'm going to one this weekend in New York.

And the people that show up outside for what I would characterize as a pep rally, it really is a celebration and a thank you to Sophie Cunningham for speaking so clearly with such moral clarity on the subject.

It's a really mixed group.

Like there are tons of people.

very far left feminists.

I agree.

... like, uh, by, by Sharia law?

You know, it's so crazy.

They just keep stepping in it, the WNBA.

I don't even have to do anything now to sell shirts.

They just have to ban them.

Uh, it started in Seattle a few weeks ago.

I don't know if you recall this, but a young girl, 16 years old, AnnaLeigh Wilson, wore our shirt, the black and green one, on the floor to watch the game, and a co-owner of the Storm cursed at her, told her she was effing insane, all these things to a girl, a 16-year-old girl.

Why, why would this be offensive to a women's league? Why would your shirts be offensive?

And I don't think that people fully appreciate that.

I agree.

I mean, I did an individual sport.

Certainly we competed as a team as team USA, although the team ties are sort of weak.

I would just say in gymnastics, it's every girl for herself, you know, that, That said, you know, and I've often said that that's what I'm fighting for, for girls to have these opportunities to hone these skills.

You know, this idea of learning what I would call mastery.

You can't do a thing, but you work really hard and then you learn how to do it versus just, oh, I can't do that and giving up, which is, you know, an affliction, I would say, amongst young people these days.

It's

And I don't think that people fully appreciate that.

I agree.

I mean, I did an individual sport.

Certainly we competed as a team as team USA, although the team ties are sort of weak.

I would just say in gymnastics, it's every girl for herself, you know, that, That said, you know, and I've often said that that's what I'm fighting for, for girls to have these opportunities to hone these skills.

You know, this idea of learning what I would call mastery.

You can't do a thing, but you work really hard and then you learn how to do it versus just, oh, I can't do that and giving up, which is, you know, an affliction, I would say, amongst young people these days.

I don't get that.

And I don't think that people fully appreciate that.

I agree.

I mean, I did an individual sport.

Certainly we competed as a team, as team USA, although the team ties are sort of weak.

I would just say in gymnastics, it's every girl for herself, you know, that, That said, you know, and I've often said that that's what I'm fighting for, for girls to have these opportunities to hone these skills.

You know, this idea of learning what I would call mastery.

You can't do a thing, but you work really hard and then you learn how to do it versus just, oh, I can't do that and giving up, which is, you know, an affliction, I would say, amongst young people these days.

It's

Why has that position become so controversial within the WNBA?

I'm not really sure.

That's a great question.

The International Olympic Committee, the Women's Tennis Association, World Athletics, which governs track and field, and many more governing bodies have made the call to protect women's sports, uh, by doing a sex test, one-time sex test to determine, uh, if there is an SRY gene, which would tell us if it, if the person was a male.

I don't know why the WNBA is having such a hard time with this.

It seems that it, they have an agenda that has nothing to do with basketball, that has more to do with politics.

But I think the right thing to do would be to announce a policy that says we're gonna keep the W in WNBA.

What do you think is at stake for the next generation of female athletes if sports leagues do not draw a clear line between biological men's and women's competition?

Right.

But last weekend we were in Minneapolis.

Uh, I, uh, brought Riley.

Uh, that was the third...

I'm not even gonna call it a rally.

It was sort of a celebration for Sophie.

We want to just show her that she's appreciated and she is loved.

Well, they do have to go this far, which brings us up to, are you surprised that the W- WNBA commissioner now is adjourning this task force?

so take us uh inside that last weekend then we'll catch up to you you just cannot uh think like this wmba commissioner my goodness what was last weekend like first with sophie cunningham riley and you

Last weekend, let me get my head straight, in Minneapolis.

So not this past weekend, we were in Chicago, but last weekend we were in Minneapolis.

I brought Riley.

That was the third, I'm not even going to call it a rally.

It was sort of a celebration for Sophie.

We want to just show her that she's appreciated and she is loved.

Well, they do have to go this far, which brings us up to, are you surprised that the WNBA commissioner now is adjourning this task force? Yes.

Thank you.

Uh, fifth in the country.

Uh, SEC champion multiple times over.

I want to know what these ladies have ever achieved in sports.

Uh, they seem like the everyone gets a medal type to me.

So people like that don't understand the kind of work that Riley and I put in to becoming champions.

Um, it's also an irrelevant point.

Ah.

Right.

Um, but there's been this long, slow march through the culture.

Um, and, you know, we started transitioning, "transitioning," uh, I put that in quotes 'cause you can't change sex.

Uh, children in, um...

I mean, it started in the mid-2000s, but it really picked up in the early 2010s, and then during COVID it just accelerated, like, a thousandfold because these poor children were home and depressed and, you know, looking on the internet, and this gave them a reason for their depression.

The reason was they were isolated and alone and at home.

Um, but that started happening in the 2010s.

Sure.

Thank you

... uh, fifth in the country, uh, SEC champion multiple times over.

I want to know what these ladies have ever achieved in sports.

Uh, they seem like the everyone-gets-a-medal type to me.

So people like that don't understand the kind of work that Riley and I put in to becoming champions.

Um, it's also an irrelevant point.

She could be the worst swimmer in the world.

[laughs] Ah.

So what's your reaction to that? How now the mainstream media is painting it that it's Caitlin Clark's fault.

Everything happening in this league right now is so stupid between, you know, blaming her.

I mean, it's like complete business malpractice.

You know, they have this star in Caitlin Clark that they refuse to lead with in marketing.

You know, she's not on any of the fever marketing materials.

She's not on the WNBA marketing materials.

They have this golden goose.

Yeah, that's right.

... you know, what's driving it?

Yeah.

Well, I don't like to try to understand people that think ridiculous things, and I wouldn't kind of presuppose that I could.

But I would just say it's probably not one thing, and for everyone it's probably different.

I think for some they've really embraced it, and they believe in this ideology.

Um, I would say Megan Rapinoe is probably in that camp.

I, I, you know, I don't think she's very bright.

Um-

It's insane.

Yeah, I mean, the very worst player in the NBA that gets no game time would be the star of the WNBA.

I think that's obvious.

The basket's the same height.

The ball is smaller.

It goes in easier.

I mean, they would slay.

Um-

Y- why don't you start with your organization and what it's designed to do?

Yeah, I started the brand about two years ago.

Um, I have a background in fashion and brand building.

I spent 23 years at Levi's, uh, s- eight of them as the CMO, two as the brand president.

Um, and I left the company in 2022, and I decided to start my own brand that combined my athletic background with my brand-building experience because I... t- to influence this conversation, uh, about biological reality and standing up in defense of female athletes.

I've been standing up for female athletes for 20 years.

I was the first whistleblower about abuse in gymnastics way before, you know, the story of Larry Nassar blew up.

... what did you feel when, when you saw that happening?

track.

Yeah, I don't know.

I definitely chatted with you on some show in the past.

Yes, and just a quick plug for the film.

It has not been released yet.

I am somewhat known, I guess, for being very outspoken about the need to open the public schools.

and to end all restrictions to children from the very beginning of lockdowns in March 2020.

They're arguing against a straw man, not actually what Rand Paul and Republicans are doing here.

So tell us why Republican lawmakers now are trying to help Caitlin Clark on the hard work.

Well, I will start by saying I don't love that the Republican lawmakers are intervening, but I also understand that there's a vacuum of leadership.

And the commissioner, Engelbert, has done nothing to protect this star player.

Kaitlyn Clark is a phenomenon.

I mean, viewership for the games that she plays in is twice as high as when she's not playing.

She sells tickets.

She sells jerseys.

But, I mean, this is the continuous targeting of her on

... do you, what do you encourage them to do?

I think there's a few things.

Um, I think we need national legislation.

We shouldn't, because we have Title IX, [laughs] but we need to kind of restate the meaning of Title IX, which was to protect women and girls' sex-based rights.

I think we need state by state legislation.

I'm the chairperson for a ballot initiative here in Colorado.

Uh, we did get enough signatures, and we'll be on the ballot in November.

So why did you start XXXY?