I didn't even think of that, but I'm now taking notes.

All right.

So let's start with what I call the essential ingredients of having an effective conversation.

Okay.

So first of all, what I encourage people to do is to see the conversation as an opportunity, right? Change the narrative.

So rather than saying, today I have to talk to Danielle about...

How do you think that's going to go? You're going to walk into the meeting with your shoulders down.

And I think, you know, kind of taking the emotion out of it and putting a framework in place and thinking through those steps and giving ourselves those tools will maybe not take the butterflies out of our stomach, but at least help us do it with the butterflies in our stomach.

Have you always been specialising in employment law or is this a new niche?

Well, I did an industrial relations major in my commerce degree and I had a bizarre dual love of construction litigation and employment law.

Because when you join law firms, like my first law firm was a large national firm, and they make you do rotations.

So you have to do at least, well, back then it was at least three, but I was so adamant that I wanted to do employment law, they refused.

agreed to me only having to do two.

And one was construction litigation and one was employment law.

And after a while, going back to employment law, I realised I loved construction litigation.

Mm-hmm.

So can you take us through that journey? What attracted you to law initially and then what led you to starting the business?

So...

I always wanted to be a doctor because I loved watching medical shows, but I'm really bad at science and blood.

So kind of ruled me out of being a doctor.

And I was always good at words rather than numbers.

So I knew that whatever I was going to do had to involve words.

And so law was, I guess, kind of an obvious choice.

What would your top three tips be for managing difficult conversations?