Can you tell me a little bit about what got you into this? What got you excited about brand in the first place?

quite a number of happy accidents.

I actually first started studying to be an occupational therapist but that career didn't work out and then I discovered I met somebody who was doing a marketing degree at our university and it was he was doing a business degree with a specialist in marketing and I went oh that seems sensible and practical and yeah I could probably do that So I enrolled in that and I just really, I don't, I'm not very good at admin and reading fine print.

So it only occurred to me when I'm standing in line three spaces before my turn in enrolment day that I had to pick a major because I didn't read that.

So I'm like going major, what are the options? And all I knew is I got to the front and suddenly I had this person say, so what's your major? And I'm saying, oh, you know, I hear they do marketing well here.

I'll do marketing.

So that's how I ended up in marketing.

Where does the role of consistency play in all of this? It sounds as though once you've identified what it is, the slot that you want to try to occupy, if I think soft drink or if I think French fries or I think whatever, I want to occupy that space so that the brand comes up as one of the consideration sets, if not the de facto default consideration.

So it's really important to get a good grip on really what your assets are.

So in the outdoor industry, maybe this is true in all industries.

I don't know.

But we talk a lot about the sea of sameness that we see in the industry.

You're nodding your heads.

It sounds like you're familiar.

Every brand basically looks the same.

But it's the only one I've seen that's actually done that in that context.