And-

It's a good question.

Tone is a thing we are constantly talking about, policing, checking, and tweaking throughout every part of the process.

Like writing, shooting, editing, you're always...

Because that is, I think, the bar we've set for ourselves with this show, is that we always wanna be funny first.

We wanna be really funny, but we also wanna have really genuine, real moments that are heartbreaking and sad and where they're really brutally honest with each other in a way that can, can bring you to tears.

And so that's, it's, you're right that the juxtaposition of that is very, very difficult at times.

And you've tackled cancel culture and sexual orientation and, I mean, pretty much anything that you're not supposed to talk about.

Jen, looking back, as Lucia mentioned, starting in 2015, you guys starting this journey, what do you wish you had known then that you know now about the challenges you'd overcome, the stories you'd tell, the fans you'd make?

um wow that's it's hard uh i think that i i wish i mean i did savor every single moment of the journey of making this show but i think even with the distance of a few months i realize as we any of us do with a very special experience to us in life how truly remarkable it was.

And maybe I could have never taken that in at the time, but to get to make a television show that makes people laugh and connects with people is the whole thing.

It's the dream.

And so I think that looking back, maybe I would have had a little bit more perspective because when you're in it, it can be so hard and so challenging and there's so much to do and you just love it so much that you want it to be as perfect and good as it can be.

And looking back, I just go, oh my God, we were so lucky to have this thing.

What is it about Deborah and Ava's shared language of comedy that is so special and was such incredible ground for all of you to get to explore?

Yeah.

And I wonder how you guys thought of him as a, as a contrast to kind of all these other people who are trying their best, or how far you realized you could push him in this season to, to be that obstacle.

Yeah, I mean, it, it, he obviously represents a kind of person in that position that I think we see as having gone too far in the direction of, you know, corporate greed.

And this, a- as we explored in previous seasons and, and throughout this one, like, the intersection of art and commerce and how particularly thorny it is for this to be a business that is merging those two things.

And as this business changes and becomes more beholden to shareholders, you know, there is this, uh, tipping towards the business side and the business side's interests.

And so it felt to us he was this, you know, kind of perfect, um, symbol for that, and that that, those wants and those needs and those, um, you know, motivations would make sense for Deborah and Ava to butt up against throughout, you know, their, their stories.

And I wonder if that was al- always part of the planning or if that was something you realized, that, like, the show is better having Marcus be a bigger part of the story for the end of where, of where Deborah lands.

lands.Yeah, I mean, the, Marcus always has been a really central part of Deborah's life and Deborah's ecosystem, and we always wanted to just honor the story for, for Marcus's character and for what it would make sense for him coming in and out of Deborah's life.

And I think that the, the arc we wanted to explore was this idea of him not really having explored his independence or feeling too tied to Deborah, too tied to the work in, through season one, and then go off on his own and find things outside of Deborah.

A lot of comedy doesn't age well.

Yeah, I mean, this whole final season is very much so about Deborah confronting her legacy and wanting to, as you said, write it on our own terms.

And I think for a comedian, like, you, you're right, it's a little more difficult than music or, because it- it's topical, uh, in commenting on the culture.

Like, uh, the best comedy speaks truth to power and talks to what's happening in our culture.

And so certainly I think there's some level of challenge there for Deborah.

But also I think the work she and Ava have done together in the show has attempted to be timeless, and just speaking to her experience and her lived experience as a woman in the industry, and I don't think that that will really age out.

For better or worse, I don't think things will progress too much.

So the, the writing process in terms of the joke writing never stops really, from beginning to end.