And what was actually realizing that in life What was that for you? Did it give you a sense of fulfillment? Did it say, man, I made it? What was that moment like you or did a moment show up that made you feel that way?

Yeah, I spent most of my adult life really sacrificing for that dream.

You know, I was moving all around the world.

I didn't really have a home.

I didn't really have a community.

I didn't really have a partnership or close friendships because I was constantly on the go with my head down, focused on that dream.

And then when I got it in 2024, I had a story about spotted hyenas published on the cover of Nat Geo.

And what's the thing that took you out?

When did you finally, when did you first realize that achievement wasn't necessarily giving you what you thought it would?

Yeah, it was after the cover because I realized that there was this tension between this feeling of, oh, I should be so happy because I achieved this thing.

And then this feeling of, oh, but I'm actually not.

I still feel anxious.

I still feel unfulfilled.

So why is there a difference there? And After spending some time with it, I came to this idea of the achievement trap.

And the achievement trap is exactly that.

How do you know when you are meant to keep going through with difficulties versus when you are being caught towards something completely different?

So I've read just a couple of tidbits from your, your bio on Podmatch, but if you want to share with the listeners a little bit about kinda your background, your journey, and what led you into doing the type of work that you're doing today.

Yeah, absolutely.

I have had sort of a long and winding journey that's taken me through multiple evolutions of myself throughout my life.

I got really excited about photography when I was a teenager, and I was already really excited about wildlife, so I ended up in college studying wildlife biology or conservation.

And then, uh, when I was in grad school for ecology and evolutionary biology, I got a grant from National Geographic, and I had been dreaming since I was a little kid of getting a story published in National Geographic Magazine.

So when I got this grant, I was over-the-moon excited about the possibilities that opened up.

And I ended up assisting a couple of conservation photographers on their Nat Geo stories, and ultimately got assigned my own story in 2021 on spotted hyenas in Kenya.

... because of outside sources? Like what is that person, what do they need to be thinking about or doing in terms of action steps?

Who is Jen Guyton? For anyone that doesn't know.

Yeah, it is a hard question to answer because I feel like I'm reinventing myself all the time.

And I've shed so many skins and changed direction so many times throughout my life that it's hard to... pin down who I am.

But in brief, my story is I was born in Germany, grew up in California, studied conservation at school, but I was also really passionate about photography, ended up in a PhD program.

and then switched to doing wildlife photography full time.

And my lifelong dream had been to get a story on the cover of National Geographic.

And that happened in 2024.

Do you feel like you've met a lot of people in your new form of work that are experiencing the same thing? And is there a name for that?