Was that kind of the lion's share of what ICE was doing before they tried to sort of expand things to where we are now on the deportation front?

I think ICE is a very interesting agency.

It was established differently after 9/11 during the George W. Bush administration.

It was actually not...

So in order for an agency to, to exist, Congress has to create it.

They have to create the law that creates the agency, and then they limit the powers and this, they say, "This is what you're gonna do." After 9/11, they created a border enforcement agency that included what ICE was doing, but then George W.

Bush administration said, "We don't like this.

We worked with the locals productively and, and civilly and cordially and professionally all the time, and now we are experiencing just the opposite.

So can you kind of just talk about, as you were on MS Now, what is the lawful authority of ICE agents when they're out there involving themselves in immigration enforcement operations?

Okay, so when we talk about the immigration enforcement agencies, there's three main ones, ICE, CBP, which is Customs, and then Border Patrol, which is in between the ports of entry.

But right now, we kind of call them all ICE.

It's like how the immigrants call us all MIGRA, which is short for Inmigracion.

So we're kind of all lumped together because we're all on this same mass deportation thing.

So when we say ICE, we're talking about these three agencies and, quite honestly, anybody that is working with them.

So the legal authority of these three agencies is immigration, customs, and narcotics that are coming across our borders and into the United States.

And now we are experiencing just the opposite.

Why is it a threat? to all of

us? The Border Patrol is a threat to all of us simply because it's been allowed to be this way since, I mean, you know, I was in the mid 90s to the early 2000s left right before 9-11 because of the corruption and the brutality.

And the cover ups I saw.

And so everything that I see going on right now in our cities in Chicago and Minneapolis and elsewhere is everything that I experienced as an agent, but only on the southern border.

And unfortunately, what I see over and over again in speaking about the Democrats is that there really is no opposition to these agencies.

There's no accountability in these agencies whatsoever.

You mentioned the film on HBO that some of my work is in, and other people's work, of course, I couldn't have done it by myself, to out the illegal cover-up teams that have existed down here for generations.

What do you think about that?

You're a former border patrol officer who's seen the training up close, so how do you think the violence ended up inside detention centers?

Well, thank you for having me, uh, Antonia.

Um, honestly, this is pretty much Immigration Law Enforcement.

It's what I was taught back in the '90s, and it is what they continue to teach today.

In the academies, what they will say, the official training, yes, they teach de-escalation, they teach you to use the minimal amount of force officially, because in the academy, it is highly supervised, and they do everything by the letter of the law.

But it is once you get out into the field is where you learn how immigration law enforcement really works.

The ramming of the cars, the pepper spraying, the busting out the windows is everything that we have been doing down here on the border since at least I was an agent in the mid '90s.

Do, do you buy that when you look at what's happening i- with this mass deportation agenda, as the administration lowered certain standards for people to even become, uh, federal agents and work in im- immigration in the first place, do you think that training is still up to par?

If you can talk about your Border Patrol experience, albeit years ago, and particularly talk about what happened in 2010 with the death of Anastasio Hernandez Rojas and your observation of what's happening right now.

Well, my time in the Border Patrol from 1995 to shortly before 2011 is exactly what I'm seeing right now.

You just didn't see it.

The rest of America didn't see it because it was happening down here on the southern border.

And I would like to say that when people say that this isn't the training or that they're untrained, no, this is the training.

This is what we've been doing for decades upon decades.

The ramming of the vehicles, the injuring people, the shooting people, and then lying about it is what happened prior to 9-11 and then really got a lot of juice after 9-11.

Talk about this high mortality rate as we wrap up.

Jen has since left the Border Patrol, but she realizes the impact of Operation Gatekeeper on migrants was anything but positive.

Yeah, Operation Gatekeeper started in 1994, in October of 1994, and I got to Tiempo in November of 1995.

And, um, so right afterwards, and the fence was just getting to Teecate when I got there, so.

Most of my class, I think we had, I don't know, 40 people graduate or something.

Mo- most of them went down to Imperial Beach, and they had a wall there.

And so that was the idea, is to fill the San Diego city area with as many agents, and weapons, and all this, and then that would push the traffic further up to the mountains, making it more difficult for them to cross, and some of them would get injured, and we knew some of them would die.

So it was intentional.

Jen said that this kind of behavior can be pretty common with young agents.