see

more and more of that.

The difficulty, of course, is that because these are, you know, there's seldomly like you can't introduce one variable and the other and demonstrate a sort of seamless direct relationship.

But these are connected issues.

And so I think what's more likely to happen than this necessarily revolutionizing the way impact assessments happen is that we really want to support communities in lobbying legal support for when this has failed to be addressed as a potential impact.

Because of course, it is an impact and some, you know, the very fact that resource companies, for example, gold mining corporations in Ontario, or mineral miners in Manitoba are actively using suicide prevention as a strategy to increase public relations tells us that they understand what the issues are in communities, tells us they understand what's at stake.

And I think more and more as the evidence base grows, I would not be surprised to see mental health indicators become more prominently featured in environmental impact assessments.

And, you know, one wouldn't want to just, you know, with a wave of a hand dismiss that, but it at the very least sets up an interesting discussion.

And again, also to weave it into assessments of potential incursions on the land and waters.

You know, from a legal and sociolegal perspective, that perspective is gaining traction in indigenous land-based struggles around the world.

From here in Western Australia or in Aotearoa or in Turtle Island and elsewhere, this important reminder of old teachings, of old ways of being in relationship with water and our relationships.

that is very much characterized by rights and responsibilities and roles and protocol for how to heal and rectify broken relationships, right? Like these, I think, are certainly resurging traditions around the world that I think hold a great degree of potential.

I really appreciate the point about the fact that there is an emerging literature base now that's about 25 to 30 years old.

And there are, there are quite frankly, countless studies that show at least qualitatively and some broader quantitative studies demonstrate the important psychological implications benefits of reconnection to land and water and caring for these relations.

And also to your earlier point, Candice, about language and the ways in which people connect culturally to language revitalization and cultural practice.

And I sat there and listened to that and

And thank you for sharing that.

Oh, you're welcome.

Yeah, it's, uh ...

Yeah, I think it's, it's like, um, if you were to ask me the same question 10 years ago, I think I would've had, um, a lot more, uh, reaction to the idea of rest.

And now, um, it's funny 'cause I think when I think of r- things that are restful today, they're not actually ...

They're things that are still work.

They're like, you know, gardening, uh, they're weeding [laughs], they are, um, playing with my daughter without having my phone around me.

You know? So- From the work that you've done, you know, with suicide studies and health justice, like, how do you think-- what do you think about the line between death that's chosen freely and a death that's shaped?

Can you tell us about your recovery or healing journey and what you found to be most helpful for yourself?

Well, I think to be a healer, you make your life in the heavy, in a sense, like you swim in the deep a lot with people.

And you can only really do that work to the extent to which you're in a good place, both psychologically, but also spiritually.

And you don't have to be in a perfect place to do that work because none of us are.

We're all growing and learning.

But I have found that some of the most life nourishing work of my life has been born out of swimming in the deep, living and navigating conversations that are heavy.

Heavy because they are heavy, such an interesting word.

My question, you know, if we're thinking about wellness and supporting those that we work with, our relatives, do you have any hints or tips on things that you found worked best when you worked with First Nations, Inuit or Métis people, whether it was about suicide or other things that you might want to share? Sure.