Mm-hmm

... over the years.

I've had to sit in a witness chair [laughs] in our county courthouse and, and, and have horrible things said to and about me while in a court setting in relation to my attempt to increase public access to the octagon.

I've been here trying to help put on public events and had drunken people coming out, yelling obscenities at me.

That's all a part of the memories I bring to this place, along with a, a, a rich variety of treasured opportunities to experience connection to Native people today, to children, to, to just seekers coming to say, "What, what's the deal with this place anyhow?" So I've got all that negative, which a lot of people don't have and I don't want you to have.

[laughs] You know, we're trying to put that behind us, but I know I can't quite.

A lot of these people I still have to work with in our community, even on our campus.

Even from the center, the precisely aligned walls of the Octagon are so far away, they would give a coyote a good sprint.