I was, I would assume I wouldn't put that past you at all.

So the first time I went to go visit, um, I watched practice and, um, you know, I just sat on the side.

It was, it was, uh, I think late summer and I was working at Rutgers at the time.

And, um, you know, I came and watched practice and, um, then Donnie and I went out for lunch.

And he goes, Buck, what do you think? And I said, Donnie, these guys are not very good.

And he goes, that's why I need you.

I need you to help me build this.

But there had to have been toss up weights quite a bit.

What is your philosophy on the sport of wrestling?

outwork your opponent.

And, you know, I think that's, you know, one thing that those teams did very well.

You know, the preparation was, I think, right on, especially, you know, when you got into the groove of we're going to have this tournament, then this tournament, this tournament.

And it was happening almost every year.

And, you know, the ability of kids making weight properly, getting them fed properly was huge, but also knowing that the competition that you were wrestling.

So being prepared was one part of it.

guys from the eighties or the guys, the guys that are wrestling now, what do you think that there may be like, uh, just lacking in general, whether it's the grit, whether it's skill, I'm

It's just, I don't know if they'll recover from something like that if you just let it keep going.

I, I feel that the NILs are definitely gonna change, um, the, the playing ground of, of wrestling and, um, I think we're gonna experience what we experienced in the '70s where we had a lot of teams drop.

And, you know, it's, it's too hard for people to keep up and, uh, you know, especially, um, uh, the way that, uh, the buy-in has affected some of the, some of the major colleges and the amount of scholarships that there are and, you know, some, some teams will have 30 scholarships, some teams will have, you know, five scholarships and, and, you know, how do you compete, uh, on a, on a level playing field with, with the amount of scholarships, the amount of NIL that's going around? Uh, I, I just think that, um, you know, 10 years, where are we gonna be, uh, because of that? And just, you know, the transfer portal, you know? Where's, where's, where's the loyalty? Um, and you know, people are, are trying to make their payday, uh, y- you know, when they can.

And, uh, you know, I just, you know, try to think, you know, would I have done the same thing when I was their age of, uh, you know, trying to go and, you know, a- and, you know, thinking that, you know, "I'm trying to get the best deal that I possibly can to try to make as much money as I can." Uh, you know, it was just different times, uh, back in the '70s than it is, than it is now.

You, you know, you were pretty grateful just to get a, a scholarship and, you know, have your, your school paid for.

Um, and you know, now it's, uh, you know, kids are comparing their NILs and, uh, you know, I think that really hurts the culture of teams, uh, because everybody's wondering what this guy's getting, what this guy's getting and, uh, uh, you know, I think it, you know, upsets, uh, the balance of a team and this is why guys are jumping in the portal so quickly too.

Right

... at Columbia.