Is there a world where that could exist, where baseball as we know it could very well reappear two, three years down the road under a completely different context and in a completely different complexion than we know it as today?

Look, I can't rule anything out.

They're definitely talking that talk right now.

Talk to the people on their side, on the owner's side, owners and presidents, people who work in that world.

I've never heard them talk tougher or express any more confidence that they can do this, that owners are different now, that players are different now, that the world is different now, and that this can happen.

They honestly think that.

Is it realistic? I guess I can't make my brain go there because I've never lived on that planet before where players would say that word cap and not think the ghost of Marvin Miller is gonna strike them with lightning and they will all die.

What's your view of what's next for Philly and, you know, what the rest of Dombrowski's kind of tenure will look like there?

And yet when you do look at it, you go, like, they basically played leverage from the start of the playoffs till, you know, till the final out.

That's remarkable.

92% of the innings they played in the postseason, the score was within two runs, which meant the tying run was always on deck for 92% of the innings they played.

But you're exactly right, Jeff.

It just feels like, you know, the way they go about it.

it's like they're dictating how this game is gonna go.

When they're down, I mean, I saw them twice in three games, once in Dodger Stadium, and then again, game one of the World Series, or I'm sorry, game two of the World Series, where they're down 4-0, And, you know, I was kidding.

Any lessons in the way the Brewers played, Jason, that you think will have caught the attention of other teams?

Mm-hmm

... who runs the Rays, he was part of that group.

And Andrew empowered them, uh, to, you know, to think however they felt like their brains, whatever their brains wanted to explore, they were empowered to do.

And if, w- you know, if they came back to Andrew, he listened, man, and they would do stuff and try stuff.

Um, Andrew was open to all of it.

And, you know, Joe Maddon has, has talked about this, about how if Eric Neander or Matt Arnold came to him with something, they weren't Andrew, right? They were just two guys working under Andrew, two really young guys in the game then.

He listened 'cause he knew it was right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

...

in who he is, what he's done, his place in the sport, uh, his, his place within that team.

And, you know, if he had this burning desire to manage, uh, and he'd always had it, and it was this thing that was eating at him, and then this was the circumstance [laughs] under which he had to take the job, I think you'd have an issue.

But just because you have this unique set of circumstances of who you're hiring, um, I don't think it will.

People will be aware of it.

He'll be aware of it.

[laughs]

You love anything that's off center.

Right.

Like you are.

Yeah, exactly.

So this is my life.

this time of year.

I mean, I'm going to go out in the road now after this round, but first two rounds, you've got three, four games a day.

What's your favorite dog in the big leagues?

And that's the thing that bothers me.

Right, and th- th- this is gonna be a needle that is so hard to thread because, I mean, like, you just look at all of the circumstantial evidence here, [laughs] okay? Uh, at, at the stage of Dave Dombrowski's career, he, he wants to win.

Uh, John Middleton, they're in it to win it.

They hire Alex Cora.

That's another indication.

Th- they're trying to win.

Um, you look at what they did in, with the rotation in the last year.

Yeah, and I, that was gonna be the question I asked is, is how much is this lockout gonna impact their, their plans? So you do see a lockout is definitely coming, and they'll have to be aggressive before it happens.

You on with Kincade?

[laughs] I was n- I was not on with Kincade.

He didn't ask me.

But, uh, you know, I, I, I was on Atlanta, and I, you know, I think there are so many Phillies who are comfortable in the moment because they've been in the moment so many times.

Th- this Braves team is not filled with guys who have won games like this.

In fact, the Braves have not won a winner-take-all game in this century.

[laughs] So I don't, I don't know what that means, but they're playing one of those winner-take-all games tonight.

But when we look at tonight's matchup, one of the questions we threw out to our listeners, and I'm gonna throw it out to you, who has the pitching advantage tonight? Is it the Phillies or the Braves?

But do you think that ritual on Sunday put them in a place where September, we put it in a box and we put it away?

Yeah, that's why teams do that.

You know, in Philadelphia, it was very controversial for some reason.

A lot of fans thought the way they finished, the way they staggered in, they shouldn't have celebrated.

That's the reason you do it.

You're not celebrating winning one game.

You're not celebrating surviving one brutal week where you felt the weight of what you were trying to do.

And maybe two guys who've been there, done it in the postseason, when they see zeros up on the board starting today, are those one of the two guys that you could actually see maybe have that season washed off them? Because both are capable of turning a baseball game.

How big of an issue is that?

Well, look, I know that Luis Urias has not been probably what they thought they were trading for.

He's only been a 270 hitter since he got here.

He actually lost the batting title, although it's weird.

If he'd gotten a hit on that last ball he hit, he would have won the batting title.

That's how close it was.

But the thing about him is he's a threat to go four for four any game or every game.

Since

What do you got for us today?

Yeah, the magic number this week is 100, and that's in honor of Alex McFarland.

You know, it's funny.

He didn't hit 100 with any pitch he threw last night, but since he got here, guys, he has thrown 263 pitches total.

68 of them have been at 100 or faster.

That's 26% of all the pitches he's thrown.

That is the highest percentage ever.

So what are the tiebreakers that are going to come into play potentially on Sunday?

Hmm.

This guy's one of the great leaders I've ever been around.

And he's, you know, he's hilarious.

Uh, he, you know, he will say stuff and do stuff that other managers won't do.

Um, you know, he had a, he has a young player, uh, who he took out for not, the middle of the game for not hustling.

He's hooked two pitchers this year in the middle of an at bat 'cause he didn't like their body language and he didn't like what he was seeing.

And all these are, uh, teachable life moments, he said.

Mm-hmm.

And there's not even one right now that I think that you would think of like, well, if I really needed an innings eater, I'd go with this guy.

Yeah.

You know, that, that Jonathan Bolin streak that he's on, it just aroused my curiosity.

That's always dangerous.

I know when that happens.

So, Last five times out, he's given up at least one run, right? And all five of those outings were seventh inning or later, His team had the lead or was tied.

I went back 30 years trying to find another Phillies reliever who had five games in a row like that, and I couldn't find one.

I think

What do you got for us?

Yeah, let's do it.

So my number of the week is 16.

And here's what that means.

So Alex McFarlane gave up that home run to Ronald Acuna the other day.

And I kept thinking...

I couldn't remember ever seeing a right-handed hitter hit a pitch like that where that guy hit it.

What do you mean by that?

Yeah, let's go for

it.

Chair, well, I figured the magic number this week ought to be two, as in two outs in the ninth, because it's just amazing the stuff this team has done with two outs in the ninth.

I wrote a lot about it in my column for The Athletic that I'll run tomorrow, but I'm going to give you guys a little sneak preview.

I feel like it's kind of incredible.

Yeah, I go away for one week, and And they have two games where they hit go-ahead home runs with two outs in the ninth.

But it's starting to feel like that's when this team does its best work.

Let's talk about the National League and who you think is upper echelon and who would be the toughest team on the Phillies.

Mm-hmm.

So I, I, we couldn't find anybody in the live ball era who did that, who led their league in home runs and then went through a season and did this and hit none at home.

So that was one category, and the other was Vladi once hit 48 bombs.

So I looked at everybody who once hit 40 homers in a season and then looked to see if they had ever gone through a, any subsequent season and hit zero home runs at home.

Couldn't find anybody who had done that either.

[laughs] You know, if you make an exception for players who got hurt, missed a bunch of games, obviously they hit no homers at home.

There's a couple examples like that.

Mm.

Which team is real?

[laughs] Y- you know, Ricky, I love this question, 'cause I, I feel like in a way you're asking, uh, is the real Phillies that team that we played concern, panic, doom about last week? [laughs] Or, or is it the team that went to Iowa and hasn't lost since? And I mean, we've done this wild ride with this team a lot of times.

Uh, I don't think there's a simple answer because there never is.

But let me try to break it down a couple different ways.

Um, one is l- look at the big picture, and tonight's Don Mattingly's 100th game managing this team.

You know what their record is in the first 99? How about 60 and 39? And that's better than just about all the teams that people think they probably can't beat.

Better than the Dodgers, better than the Cubs, better than the Yankees, better than the Braves, better than the Rays.

H- how are all these tiebreakers gonna work?

[laughs]

... that's [laughs] kind of what it's like.

I- It's just so insane.

So now, that day, um, I was actually wearing, wearing the shirt earlier, did the press conference.

Now it's time to go give my speech.

This was a time when, uh, players would still go to our speeches.

Um, and so I go into this room at the Otesaga Hotel, and I was the first one there because I wasn't gonna be late for my Hall of Fame speech.

Hmm.

[laughs] Yeah, you did

... on MLB Network, Concern, Panic, or Doom.

Uh, it's quite a game to play right now.

I, I don't know about you, I'm not personally quite at panic, but I'm close.

If you would've asked me a week ago after the deadline, I wasn't even at concern, but this team just keeps playing terrible baseball, and they've been terrible at almost everything for about four weeks now.

I, I...

It's amazing.

I gotta ask you, how do they survive with this bullpen? Who do you, who do you even trust in a setup role?

Mm-hmm.

And they'll, they'll miss Daulton Varsho when he does what he did last night, which was hit the ball over the fence.

So I, I, I think the question is, are they good enough, not just to m- make up three and a half games, but to climb over six teams? That, they're just sitting in, i- in a situation where they have so little margin for error.

But I, I mean, Soriano, I knew he was really good.

It was fun to watch him.

I, you know, all those Dylan Cease comps, I was in that conversation in the manager's office.

I totally agree with them.

Mm-hmm.

So, for me, I guess, in your eyes from the conversations that you've had, is this a good thing in, for the relationship for, uh, Dave and, and Harper? Or can this lead to a little bit more confliction?

[laughs] Uh, I, you know, I actually think they got to a good place, Todd, or certainly the best place they've been in for quite some time.

Um, so three days after Bryce said what he said, Dave went down after the game, this is last Friday in Baltimore, and found Bryce.

Bryce was eating after the game, and Dave sits down with him in full view of the rest of the team and actually because, you know, if you know where the, the food tables are now in Baltimore, out, actually outside the clubhouse, everybody got to see it.

Media saw it.

And so [clicks tongue] they had a really w- what sounds like frank exchange where Bryce said, "I, I honestly didn't mean this personally, Dave.

I just wanted to make sure that you understood we think we need help." And Dave said, "I get it." And, you know, I, Todd, I don't know whether th- just on the basis of that conversation [laughs] they're now back to where they'll, they'll be meeting for breakfast every morning, you know? [laughs] But, uh, they needed to be in the same place and on the same wavelength because they needed Bryce to sign off on this to get everybody else to sign off on it, because it's an incredibly risky deal to make.

Like, what- From what you've heard or what you've seen or anything along those lines, can you give a little perspective of what, what is going on here? Because it seems like it's, this injury is taking a lot longer than expected and, you know, the answers aren't coming and the fans are starting to understand and get a little worried.

But w-what, what is the justification for this? How do you wrap your head around a decision to just get clearly worse this year to likely get a little better for the next several years?

Yeah.

That's, that's the essence of this whole conversation.

And you know, I just wrote in my "What We Learned at the Deadline" column, um, one of the, one of the aspects of this was the definition of we're in the race is really changing [chuckles].

And I would hear these f- great front office minds explain to me about how you no longer look at the games behind column.

You're looking at all the underlying stuff that tells you how good you really are and how good your chances really are.

And that works for all those sellers except one, the Tigers [chuckles].

[laughs]

Take me up a mile and tell me what you think about all of that that's being said.

Um, you know, it was coming.

Yeah, I, I actually find it really entertaining that since this trade, people have decided the Dodgers are unbeatable, and they haven't won a game in a week.

It's just so beautiful.

But, um, [tsking] you know, there's just the narrative, and this feeds into the narrative.

So- I don't think the n- the, the-- I don't think this deal was all about money and the Dodgers' financial advantages.

It feeds into it, but, um, it, it, it's irrelevant because the narrative is what's gonna show up at the bargaining table, and it's gonna show up in the conversation the rest of this year, all of October, and then through all the labor talks.

Mm-hmm.

Were you surprised what they did, though, to make room for him at second base?

[laughs] Of course.

Okay, so, uh, for one thing, he was the best hitter who got traded.

He was the best hitter available.

Um, you mentioned this, Doug Glanville and I just talked to Dave Dombrowski on our Starkville podcast.

Uh, that show will drop later in the week.

But Dave made the point they were able to do this at a price point that was much lower than all the other rental players who got traded, and I went and looked.

When you look at this trade deadline, who would you say had the best deadline of anybody?

What do you got for us?

[laughs] Okay.

Uh, hey, guys, I'm sure you've noticed the Phillies are pretty much an awesome team when Wheeler, Sanchez, and Lozado start.

Maybe not so much in the Marlins series, but in general, [laughs] not so much when anyone else starts.

So I'm gonna paint that picture for you.

When those three guys start, the Phillies record is 43 and 18, so that's a winning percentage of over 700.

So basically they're the Rams, they're the '98 Yankees.

... as dire as things might look right now with this team, it's kind of how it looked in 1980.

But I'm glad you brought up the starters are getting paid, because I got a little thrown off yesterday when Jason Stark joined us and we were talking about the trade deadline, and we said, "Hey, what are you hearing about where they might be shopping?" Listen to Jason Stark.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna shock you when I tell you this, but it's, it's obviously some combination of bat, reliever, starter.

And I think there was a time when a bat was at the top of their shopping list.

When I talk now to teams that have spoken to the Phillies, it, it doesn't sound that way to me anymore.

I...

They're shopping for an impact arm from what I can tell.

Uh, that could be a starter.