Yeah, it's, it's quite distressing in so many ways, and Jayshree, I guess I wonder, like, because you're-- as you're drawing these parallels from the, your observations of, your engagement with, relationship to elephants and their societies, particularly through your research, I'm curious if I can ask, like, um, how this kind of ended up shaping or affecting your clinical practice?

Yeah.

[laughs] I think that, uh, I think as a family therapist and as an art therapist, you know, I'm, I'm trained to, um, be aware of stereotyping.

I'm trained to be aware of these power differentials among people, uh, amongst, uh, you know, be- in, m- those areas in my own identity where I hold power and privilege, and those areas in my identity where I do not.

And similarly with clients, the kinds of identities that they b-bring forward where they have, they hold positions of power, and those where they do not.

And I'm aware of that up and downness, that kind of buffeting nature of those differences within the therapy session, right? And within that therapeutic encounter.

So for me, it-it's no different whether I'm a painter painting these things and u-understanding myself in the process as I also try to understand the world.

Mm.