So I'd love to hear from your perspective, how are regulations like SB 55 for particularly EPR in the States and PPWR in Europe? How are they changing the priorities for packaging teams?

We could probably spend an entire hour talking about regulation, but nobody wants that, me included.

So it's interesting.

I sort of, I put companies in one of three, I don't know, camps, buckets, whatever.

The first bucket is the ones that are sort of comfortably numb.

Like they don't even know this exists.

And it's shocking how many of them are out there, right? I just saw a stat where I think 2,500 producers have registered in the state of California.

How do you balance those trade-offs?