So a couple of questions, Jason, and forgive me if these are not answerable yet, but if I was a resident of, say, Arizona, and I took exception to my state joining this compact, this is between me and my legislature and my governor, and I would essentially have to fight that battle in the state capitol, right?

Well, that's right.

The first step here is going to be fighting in the court of public opinion and in the halls of our state legislature, making the case that the National Popular Compact is a disaster waiting to happen.

And here's why.

You know, I don't think after the results of last Tuesday that any hardcore partisans on the left are going to shy away from the idea of activating this compact because they see it as a way to stack the deck ahead of the 2028 election, guarantee that the presidency will be handed to somebody that will be decided not by diverse swing states in the middle of the country, but by blue states, hardcore blue states like New York and California forever.

So what we have to show, though, is that when you activate the compact, what you are really doing is creating a disaster because this is going to get thrown to the court.

There is going to be mass uncertainty about what the rules of the process are, about whether this is even constitutional.

And I think you might have just answered the next question I was going to ask you, but it sounds like you're saying this could be done, given the zeal for it and the willingness to do it, this could be done in time for the 2028 election, which to my ears sounds like things are moving much faster than they ever do in politics or legislation.

Instead, they want to do an end around, is that constitutional, and isn't it likely to be challenged in court and challenged successfully?

Well, I think it's going to be challenged.

There is a 100% chance of that.

I would not take any bets on Cauchy otherwise.

But the reality is that this is an entirely open question of law.

There is some precedent in favor of the idea that Congress would have to consent to this compact.

Something that has not happened that would be subject to presidential veto.

but under a national popular vote interstate compact if you could generate a couple of a couple hundred thousand more votes in california all those all the sudden those added to the affected the compact don't think

When does the effort to actually – expose what you just described come to fruition.

Well, the effort is actually going on right now.

Before the election, both the Alaska government and the Justice Department in Washington began launching investigations after the New York Times piece came out that finally gave some credibility to what a lot of us have been saying for months now, that this is a very clear fraud that's being perpetrated against the people of Alaska.

Subpoenas have been sent out.

Even Mark Elias apparently got a letter indicating that he may be the target of a criminal investigation.

I think that's all very good to see.

And I think that we need to see where the facts play out.

Do you throw her out? Do you have a new election? What is it that happens from there?

Can you tell us about that?

Yeah, this was one of the more interesting things on Tuesday that we saw.

You know, obviously there was this blue tsunami that everybody's talking about at the candidate level.

But that same blue wave delivered a wave of ballot measure wins for voter ID and for non-citizen voting bans.

So there were 10 measures on the ballot and almost all of them passed.

passed except in California and in Colorado.

Now, Colorado is a little bit of an asterisk there because they actually require 55% public support to pass an amendment and it still got over 50%, but it didn't get to 55.

Let's let the states do it.

But just how does the rank choice voting in Alaska really play into what could lead to even more confusion amongst voters?

Well, this is one of the most interesting pieces of this.

This entire scandal is only really possible because of ranked choice voting, because of the way that Alaska runs its elections.

And there are two major changes that Alaska made back in 2020.

The left pushed a ballot measure a little disingenuously, I would note, to bring in jungle primaries and ranked choice voting.

And so they've been using that for the last couple of cycles.

What that means is that Decoy Dan could be recruited to run.

Jason, finally here, what kind of lessons should other states and even local governments and local municipal races and such? I'm sure that these types of shenanigans have happened all over the place before, but what kind of lessons should people take away from this?

Tell us what ranked choice voting is.

Well, at bottom, ranked choice voting is a fundamentally different kind of an election.

So as, uh, as most of us understand, in an ordinary election, you go to the polls, you pick one candidate in each race that you support, you mark your ballot, or you hit your touch screen for that person, and then you move on to the next race.

Very simple, very straightforward.

What ranked choice voting says is you're no longer choosing one candidate.

We're gonna ask you to rank many candidates in every single race that is on your ballot.

So we'll give you four, five, sometimes even ten candidates to choose from, and you rank them one, two, three, four, five, on and on until you either exhaust your options or you are so exhausted that you say, "I'm done voting," and, you know, you turn in your ballot.

Sullivan

So who all have you had speak at the events? And, and kind of just give, um, an overview of what people will expect if they sign up in Wisconsin based on what, what's already happened.

Well, we've had a really fantastic event series so far this year.

Uh, this is actually the third election cycle that our coalition has gone around the country doing these events.

And, and I guess I'm, I'm first very grateful to all of those partners, including Tea Party Patriots, Heritage Action, uh, Turning Point, and, and so many other organizations that have been, you know, really, uh, making these events, uh, just absolute successes.

Uh, when folks come to these events, you know, the first thing, uh, that people like to know is that we feed them.

So if you come to one of these two events in Wisconsin, you will get, uh, a, a free meal along with the training to, uh, to, to serve as poll workers and poll watchers.

And we also feature panels of some of the nation's leading election integrity experts, and give opportunities to hear about the current state of play on everything from the SAVE Act in, in the Senate to the election integrity debate in your state.

But if you're there and you're the worker, you're able to talk and communicate and remind people what, what they're supposed to do, or you could be reminded of what you're supposed to do, and then everything runs the way it's supposed to.

So describe that process for us, please.

Yeah, this is a system that, frankly, nobody should be familiar with because it just shouldn't exist.

It's one of these things that you could really cook up in a lab and then try to see sort of experimentally if it works.

I think that the people of Alaska have figured out that it doesn't, which is why they might repeal this whole thing later this year.

And maybe we can touch on that again in a moment.

But it is a two-part system, very similar to the way that we all conduct elections.

There's a primary and a general, except that everything else is completely different.

But there's going to be a fourth name, right? And then the voters in Alaska are going to have to rank choice those four.

Tell us what ranked choice voting is.

Well, at bottom, ranked choice voting is a fundamentally different kind of an election.

So as most of us understand, in an ordinary election, you go to the polls, you pick one candidate in each race that you support, you mark your ballot, or you hit your touchscreen for that person, and then you move on to the next race.

Very simple, very straightforward.

What ranked choice voting says is you're no longer choosing one candidate.

We're going to ask you to rank many candidates in every single race that is on your ballot.

So we'll give you four, five, sometimes even 10 candidates to choose from.

So it's going to make things more even.

Tell us about those.

That's right.

So state legislative seasons tend to work a little differently than what we see in Congress.

So they're usually shorter.

They usually start in January.

And depending on the state, they could end in any time between March and June.

So it's much more of a sprint than a marathon.

What's going on with that?

Tell people exactly what this training is and how they can get involved in it.

Well, this is a grassroots event that is designed to plug in committed conservatives with poll worker opportunities in elections near you.

And poll workers are really the machinery of elections.

They're what makes these things possible.

We need people working polls and as we have you know several weeks of early voting plus election day to consider we need to make sure that we've got folks that want to follow the law actually working the process of making sure that we have a successful election and so what we're doing in conjunction with a number of other organizations including uh and i'm very grateful for the support of tea party patriots action we've also got heritage action turning point uh and the american constitutional rights union alongside as well We're offering a training in Georgia coming up next Friday, the 28th in Alpharetta to, first of all, give you an inside look at what it actually entails being a poll worker.

And then we're going to have a couple of incredible guest speakers, including Congressman McCormick, who's going to talk about the ongoing fight for election integrity.

And we're going to have a great discussion with a panel of experts from all of our partner organizations.

And if they're in another part of the country, what they would do.

So what's the argument that you hear back from states that won't enact such bans?

Well, it's pretty interesting, actually.

We've had a lot of success.

We've actually had 11 states that have enacted these bans.

And in general, the arguments that we hear within those legislatures against this and in some of the legislatures where we haven't seen any action at all involves things along the lines of, you know, you really can't prove that this is foreign money.

You don't have the receipts tying dollar for dollar, you know, this spend to that foreign national.

It's stuff like that where they really sort of miss the forest for the trees.

unpacked-

Fine, you do that as long as you can confine the damage to the state of California itself, but you will not be allowed to impact the rest of the nation with your lawless cheating."

Well, look, I mean, I would take something like the Save America Act as a, as a, a first kind of starter policy reform.

Let's get voter identification required in, in all 50 states.

Let's get proof of citizenship required in all 50 states so that we actually can begin to guarantee that you've got people proving who they say they are and proving that they are citizens.

That would be a fantastic starter.

I'd even take a pared back version of the SAVE Act that just does voter ID as a, a first step towards fixing this problem.

And let's hope that the Supreme Court rules favorably in that Watson, uh, case that I mentioned earlier so that we can also try to put an end to those late ballots.

Right.