And so it, that, it looks like the sort of that idea ca- you know, that the, the call came out like we are the w- the enemy is the media now, and, uh, and so you were sort of, that that was what you were, uh, you got sort of struck by.

Yeah, I think so.

And it, look, listening to Trump supporters at the events now, it's been striking over the last few months to watch what the, the first thing people talk about as the big issue to them.

'Cause it used to be like Trump closed the border, and that's the be- and he's doing great with that.

And now, a, like probably like 20% of the people we talk to say, "What's the biggest issue?" And they will say Muslims.

Literally, just like an entire religion.

That has now become a talking point with- within, I don't know where it's coming from.

... into each other.

But only after the election, after you've done a favor for me first.

Right.

So I think with Vance, look, he's obviously not as popular as Donald Trump.

He doesn't have the charisma.

He doesn't have that drawing power.

If we go to a Trump rally, there are no Vance T-shirts at conservative events.

There's no Vance T-shirts.

Jason, when you spend time and you talk to people who are part of this base, do you get the sense that the commitment to this kind of larger project is something that the base is motivated by? Or it's really something that's exclusive to the strategists, the consultants, the big money, the people who have that grander vision that someone like Stephen Miller is so invested in?

Very sensitive

... anything like this before.

You know, he's ve- I'm not, that's, that's not a joke.

Like, he is really, really sensitive, and if, if he gets his feelings hurt, that's when when you see him act out in such irrational ways, and it's, like, going back to the 2020 election.

Like, he's still going back to this because he can't deal with the fact that, like, he saw on TV that he lost.

That when, that Saturday morning when Fox News called the election, called Arizona, he still has that feeling of, like, deep insecurity, feeling like a loser, and that totally goes against his entire personality, the whole brand that he's built for himself.

And he's j- just tries to break that down, and he'll use, he'll, h- he's using the actual, he's using the whole government just to protect his feelings.

I saw this video.

What about the people that you talk to out there? Can they donate a dollar or two or 10 and get the president or the chief of staff on the phone to say, hey, these tariffs aren't working for me?

No, actually.

And it's been interesting in the last few months going out because I've tried to talk to as many Trump supporters as I can about this, the billions of dollars that Donald Trump has made.

And they have an answer to it that probably shouldn't surprise you.

They say, well, Donald Trump's a great businessman.

Of course he's going to make money.

And I say $2 billion plus in one year, that's a lot of money.

Do you get a sense that... those reactions that you're getting are limited to maybe the deeper MAGA districts, or is it still widespread?

So I just wonder like they really do process that that is just not what was promised.

Yeah, and now look, some people, they look at Trump, and they say, "This is a smart guy.

This is a smart businessman." Like they really bought what was being sold to them at the beginning, or even bought what was being sold to them in Celebrity Apprentice, saying he's this mastermind businessman who's, you know, figured it all out.

He's got his name on all the buildings, and he's got gold, so he's rich.

And they really buy that whatever he's doing is for the best interest of the country because that's what he's saying he's doing, not necessarily like looking at the results of it.

But there are a lot of Trump voters, um, s- certainly voters, but Trump supporters who probably still support him that do see like some of the nuance in this and see also that it, these are very blatant lies.

What do they say?

... "It should be a makeup.

So I just wonder, like, they really do process that that is just not what was promised.

Yeah.

And now, look, some people, they look at Trump, and they say, "This is a smart guy.

This is a smart businessman." Like, they really bought what was being sold to them at the beginning, or even bought what was being sold to them in Celebrity Apprentice, saying he's this mastermind businessman who's, you know, figured it all out.

He's got his name on all the buildings, and he's got gold, so he's rich.

And they really buy that whatever he's doing is for the best interest of the country because that's what he's saying he's doing, not necessarily, like, looking at the result of it.

But there are a lot of Trump voters, um, certainly voters, but Trump supporters who probably still support him, that do see, like, some of the nuance in this and see also that it, these are very blatant lies.

What do they say?

Not because they did anything criminal, but because Donald Trump just decided they were from S-hole countries and he was gonna take away their work permits and he was gonna take away their other papers.

Yeah, and none of this should be surprising coming from Donald Trump.

I mean, he based his whole first election campaign with building a wall and making America great again.

And kind of the subtext of that was always there was racist undertones to that.

Like, we got to keep certain groups of people out of here.

And what you're saying that they're making the population, the undocumented population, growing it so they can then... deport more people.

I think the reason for that is they're looking at this and they're saying, this is something that was the winning message in the election in 2024.

But instead, it's a little depressing.

Right.

So he, he's always kind of like put himself in a position where he's gonna be out there as like this pop culture figure.

He's the rich guy from The Apprentice.

He was the playboy in the, in the '80s and '90s.

So this comes very natural to him, and I think the big part of it is he likes UFC.

That's the big part of it.

He's like, "I like this.

Yes.

[laughs]

I mean, CPAC is a really bizarre place because it'sIt is, it's like a Comic-Con for Trump, and you've got, like, Trump bedazzled jackets that are being sold.

Like, Trump-Jesus imagery.

Like, even before he put out his Jesus meme, there were people that, like, have, selling things that are saying T- Trump is, is close to God and things like that.

So it's very, very bizarre.

But a- handing out the Epstein files there, it w- struck me how many people were like, "This is not real.

This is fake.

Right.

Um, are, are you surprised?

I don't, I mean, am I surprised? No.

I mean, Donald Trump has, like, an enemies list.

We know that.

I guess I'm surprised with just the reaction of the American people after the first round of this.

Trump is using the federal government to go after late night comedians.

It's so silly.

But like, he is trying to persecute c- comedians in this environment.

Mm-hmm.

Where he's making this very overtly about Christianity, and his reasons for leaving, like, you know, leaving his following of Donald Trump and his support of Donald Trump is-Is because of Christianity and his his love, uh, for his Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and that is the reason that he is leaving.

It's all about God, and he's framing it in a way that it's now become this righteous mission that he's on where he's gonna have to like right Trump's wrongs and use Christianity as, you know, the springboard into whatever this leads him to, this political career.

And keep in mind, during-

Yeah

... people are, the, on the right are wondering, like, w- where are America's interests in this? How is that helping people here, especially with gas prices going through the roof.

So I think, I think it's a different, I think it's a different crazy between the two of them.

Trump is, like, he is acting differently.

Yeah

... has the big like there's like a big glass ceiling and fountains and it has the same feel, the Gaylord in Maryland, but it definitely did not have any star power.

Like, uh, it, people didn't realize CPAC was happening.

Anyone I talked to in Dallas had no idea CPAC was there or even like some of them were just like, "What's CPAC?" But it would, did not, it was not like a, a news story that CPAC was happening there in Dallas.

And obviously the headliner wasn't there.

Donald Trump wasn't there.

J.D. Vance wasn't there, although you can't even put them even up close to the same-

Right

Yeah.

But that, that just shouldn't be taking place in the country.

But to say it's a problem only from the left is, is just, it's simply not true.

I mean, I, you, the, you could...

There's a list of (laughs) you know, crimes that have been committed, um, against Democrats by, by, um, re- people who identified as Republicans.

So, I think it, I think it very odd to say it's only coming from the left.

Um, 'cause just from going to Trump rallies, like, some of the rhetoric that we hear at Trump rallies, like some of it is we don't even post 'cause it's so bad.

Hm.

deny, Jason? I mean, did you see?

Look, big if true.

Big if true.

Big if true.

But it was interesting about this.

When you step back and think about it, it makes perfect sense.

There were a lot of Q people there because this was a military parade and Trump was having this military parade.

I'm not wasting that on a bit, but anyway, your thoughts.

Yeah,

richest man on earth.

You can get away with a couple of things.

So I was sitting there.

I was kind of like made a split second decision.

I'm never probably going to be in the same room as Elon Musk again.

I got to go up and say something to him.

Is there a standout moment where you, where you just like, they just totally blew your mind where they just said something that's so absurd or so crazy that And you're just thinking to yourself, you've just made my brain explode with what you just said, sir or