And just to be clear what you mean by you need another 4%, what you mean is that the pot would pay dividends, interest, whatever you want to call it, a return that meant you earned the equivalent of what you were earning in your job.

Exactly that.

And I was about 4% out and I was looking at higher speculative stuff that I could potentially accelerate that journey to.

And I was looking at online poker.

I went down an online poker rabbit hole with a guy called Casper Berry, who was a professional poker player.

He consulted on Casino Royale.

And then I went to options trading.

but a lot of people but i didn't love him jason and there's a lot of things that i did that i know are fundamentally wrong back then but the the it truly is fantastic but you talk about the three freedoms and the reason that i bring that up at that point because i think that's relevant to you talking about how at that point you had financial freedom but the meaning was missing for you in the sense of the or purpose so what what are the free freedoms

a child.

They say that whatever you perceive to be missing most in your childhood becomes your highest value.

And for me, that was really just security.

My earliest memories were my dad had left.

It was just me and my mom trying to make ends meet kind of thing.

typical story of South London council estate you know bailiffs knocking on the door for the electricity and hiding behind the sofa because pretending you're not in and you know all these kind of things and then to make ends meet my mum was out getting various jobs and I was looked after or babysat by this family who just happened to be like a renowned gangster family and I was kind of exposed to kind of screaming and shouting and dodgy characters all day long and it was uh you know I felt like I didn't have security I guess um I didn't feel like I was in a secure position as a child and that kind of naturally made me gravitate towards figuring out how to get security and obviously money's a big part of that which I found out later on but The two main kind of turning points were on our on our estate on a Friday night, everyone used to sit on the steps of the block of our flats as like a little bit of a mother's meeting and sort of moan about the week.

And I used to pick up on negative kind of comments towards money and.

So what are some of the tactics, tips, advice that you can give for people, someone that is struggling to understand who they are and what their true purpose is? How can they get that clarity? How do you help them? And what advice would you give having managed to get there yourself?