If a broker can compare rates and cashback offers online in minutes, what should make them choose one broker over another? What is the value added here?

What are we competing on? Well, we talked about this.

I mean, I did a whole series of this last year and I actually did a few keynotes on this.

We talked about what that experience actually looks like and the evolution of the industry from banker to broker, where originally we moved from bank to broker.

The broker was very much price orientated.

We then started moving into that next sort of where it was more around strategy and And then really where we're at now is what I would call the experience broker.

So how do we actually have that particular archetype of brokerage or broker that where they are the experience? Because you're right, there's a homogenous nature that sits behind all of this, whether it's bank or broker, the debt is the debt and it comes in different colors, it comes in different flavors, but there's not a lot of variance per se.

Is there a danger brokers spend too much time, or maybe not enough time, competing on price? Where should they put that in their ticket of competitiveness, and how can they approach that to make sure clients can understand where they

Yet there are going to be...

people in our market that are still using free versions.

I think the stat was something like, what is it? 2% of people only use the paid version of ChatGPT.

We've got lots of information flowing back and forth.

We don't necessarily understand the ramifications of putting that data into particular systems and where that data sits and how accessible it is.

And then you go to the wider, more newsworthy articles.

Sure, the Medicare hack and stuff, which was agents basically doing research for a project that were basically not deterred by some firewalls.

Jason, for you, at bird's eye level, as technology has become more sophisticated, do you think tech has helped or hindered the fraud more, finding, detecting and preventing fraud? Do you think it's been an ally or an enemy of that process?

Do you think that's something that you can deliberately build, or is it b- inherent to the position in the market you're in?

Uh, it's a really fascinating sort of approach, I suppose.

And, and I think there's probably layers or there's almost like a formula when it comes to trust, or you might describe them as maybe characteristics.

And I think that's where when you look at that formula, and I suppose I'd go, like, consistency is probably the main thing.

So if you look at why Bunnings, as an example, is, is well trusted, it's because of its consistency.

If you talk to a builder, though, or a tradie, you'll prob- they'll probably say that, "Look, the products aren't the best quality," as an example, "but they're consistent." And I think for the average consumer, that's what they're, you know, they're always looking for.

They know what they're gonna get.

Well, maybe saying no reputation is a bit harsh, but no client, but how can brokers go about establishing credibility to begin with?

How can you set the right expectations and, and, and kinda share your vision with the team, I guess?

Well, I, I suppose you can't hold people to account if the standards, if you haven't made 'em clear.

So, uh, first off, again, it's probably a three-step process.

One would be is being really clear on outcomes.

So that's obviously, you know, what are they there to achieve? Those key result areas might be two or three areas that matter most, whether it's, you know, for brokers it might be around straight through processing rates, it might be MIRs, it might be customer satisfaction, it could be, you know, settlement volumes, whatever, right? But there's gonna be two or three areas that matter the most in each role.

Those outcomes need to be absolutely crystal clear, they need to be in writing, they need to be measurable, and that's what's the second part.

If we don't know how to measure it, then how do we know if people are successful? Whether it's on turnaround times instead of outstanding items or errors or reworks or feedback or whatever it is, we need to be able to measure success, and I think that's something that's probably not been well created over the last decade because the industry, if you remember, was built for solo practitioners.

I guess to open this up, Jason, what is the difference between having a group of good employees versus having a genuinely high-performing team that can get results?

Yeah, and responsibly, yeah.

I mean, I think you mentioned it just in what you said then is, like, you know, it's almost like providing that guide.

When should I refinance? I mean, it's such a great question, and, and I don't know if enough brokers have really posed that to their base and to their markets that they serve because we've all got the opportunity to do it.

It's whether you can do it.

I mean, there were some interesting stats also came out.

I think the MFAA released some stuff recently in relation to the number of people that are sort of mortgage hostages, those that haven't got the ability to refinance, especially in the increasing interest rate environment.

Um, we know dollar-for-dollar refinances has been really challenging over the last couple of years 'cause there hasn't really been enough arbitrage.

Do you find in environments like this, lenders do sharpen their propositions, they become more competitive on new and existing business and a- giving brokers an in, or, or do you find that they can still be quite, I don't know, cloysey about it and, and, and-

But what do you think about paid online advertising? Is it worth it for, let's say, a smaller brokerage or are there better ways to initially generate business?

Look, I always oscillate on paid advertising.

I think there is some amazing opportunities in the space and I think there's also a huge opportunity to waste a lot of money.

What's the saying? Are you using Facebook or is Facebook using you? So I think you've got to be careful about your expectations with paid advertising.

I heard a stat recently from a marketing person who was saying that he tracks and monitors all the brokers that do Facebook or Meta Ads, as an example.

He reckons there's about 3,500 by his metrics currently advertising.

That's a busy marketplace for a small country.

So most generally, I guess, where does thought leadership fit into a brokerage's marketing strategy?

Yeah, and it's something that you've just brought up is, you know, how can you look at your existing relationships with not just clients but also referral partners? Do you think those relationships, do you think they become more important in times like this or is it just that they're underutilized anyway?

Yeah, I think it's a bit of underutilization, Jules.

Like anything, I think we, I speak to so many brokers and I ask about relationships all the time and I get things like, oh, I haven't spoken to an accountant for six months.

And I say, well, it's not really a relationship anymore.

That's more of an acquaintance.

It's about formalizing these relationships.

Don't forget, these businesses are going through the same sort of challenges as well, whether they be accountants, whether they be BAs, especially, whether it's real estate agents, planners, whether it be architects or builders.

Well, this is the big question, right? Will conditions change? When will they change? And will they change? So I guess my first question to you is how do brokers make sure that you stay sustainable in the long run in the situations of this? How do you build a pipeline for six to 12 months from now, rather than just worrying about right now's settlements?

To find out what they look like from the outside rather than just staring into a mirror.

Yeah, look, I mean, this is, again, your overall experience.

I mean, your reputation is built through your entire business.

I mean, you could be looking at everywhere from your first inquiry to speed of response.

And you can measure these things against industry best practice and what global best practice is.

Your discovery conversion rates increase.

basically ask your customers.

Although LinkedIn is an interesting one because there's not loads of clients on that.

Hi everyone, it's Jason back here from Broker Essentials and it's good to see you all again.

One of the things I want to talk to you about today is a really interesting topic that I presented at a conference at around creating a signature experience.

Now, why is that so important right now? As customer expectations continue to increase, they're not only compounding, but they're also increasing at speed.

Now, what that means to you is that your customer is not just comparing you against another loan originator.

They're also comparing you against Amazon and Uber and Apple and the local grocery store buying a car or booking a flight.

any experiences they now have, they're comparing against you and your competitors.

But how can brokers approach that? Because obviously each different part of the business is so different.

Yeah, I think you've got to put some rules sort of over the top of it.

I mean, and you don't want to automate effectively the relationship.

And this is where, again, I think some businesses have gone probably a little bit too far.

You know, we want to automate what's predictable, what's repetitive, you know, the rule-based, you know, we'll go through the if, you know, if this, then that sort of, that was the old sort of mentality.

And now with AI, that's obviously changed.

I think there's a hybrid sort of things.

Do you think that AI has blurred the line between what is acceptable in terms of how you personalize a value-added experience?

But another part, of course, unfortunately, is, is there enough demand to support that niche rather than just a trend? So how can you figure that out, Jason? What's the process there? Good

question.

I mean, there's actually a bunch of things in there.

I mean, again, if I go back to some of my previous experiences, the four questions I would ask about a market would be, of course, what problem have they got? The second question is, can I solve it? The third one would be, do I want to work with that market? So that's that passion question.

And the fourth one is, is it a profitable market? So yeah, right.

I mean, is there enough in that market to go around where we've got 22,000 brokers and banks and stuff servicing that one particular market? How do I then penetrate that niche? How do I stand out in that really busy marketplace? You know, it's really interesting talking to some clients who have got, who are bi or trilingual and stuff and I go, you know, one of your expertise is speaking Hindi or speaking Mandarin or Cantonese or, you know, and I sit there and go, yeah, a lot of, you know, typical English, Irish, Western brokers don't have that skill.

So maybe that's a niche that you, you know, you can specialize in.

So I guess within that, how can you build genuine expertise and credibility? What's the process there? How can brokers build on what they have, build on what they're seeing and become that trusted expert in their fields?

And I guess that feeds into the client journey, right? Is understanding the, that dichotomy of those two kind of factors there.

Yeah, and I think this is where, you know, there's a lot of social commentary around, you know, how we see housing as a asset in this country.

You know, is it something that is a tradable asset that's used for, you know, passive gains to build equity to buy more assets? Or, or is it just the family home that should be coveted, that that's its primary purpose? And I think we've, we've got two or three or five, you know, uh, groups sort of saying different things, which is confusing.

So should I go into this thing as a, and looking at as an...

I've got-- I mean, I remember buying a property through one of my BAs a few years ago, probably 10 years ago now actually, a sight unseen.

In fact, I've owned it and sold it with never seeing it, and it was a really strange journey for me to go, "I bought this thing.

It wasn't cheap." Um, you know, we made some good money off it.

So how important-- I guess, as the market has shifted, as you said there, 20 years to save for a deposit, how has the salience of initiatives such as the 5% Deposit Scheme or perhaps Help to Buy, how, how have they, uh, the, the salience, uh, has it intensified and, and also how have they changed the conversation that brokers are having with first-home buyers, Jason?

But when we just keep back at that start, where do you see brokerages or brokers unintentionally losing clients before a loan is even talked about?

Look, I think, again, not understanding the consumer enough.

I think there's moments that matter.

And again, this emotional highs and lows, that journey that client's on.

I think sometimes, especially with our industry, we attract a lot of internally referenced neutral communicators.

People that maybe aren't picking up on the signals or what we would call pacing or matching the customer where they're at, which means we can miss some of these signals from the clients.

Because remember, you think about the excitement of buying a first home or the opportunity to buy an investment property, it's a pretty special time.

But how can brokers find points of improvement? How can they move forward in terms of bettering that client strategy at the end of settlements? How can they find those points?

At what point in the client journey, so before the technology even comes into effect, at what point in the client journey can brokers introduce open banking and how should they really be explaining this to their clients?

Well, that's a really interesting one.

I mean, I think this is probably where there's going to be some leaps and bounds.

And at the moment, we think about that document collection process that we currently go through is generally, for most brokers, If we're looking at detailed document collection, it's after we've met with the customer.

And then we're going through that authorization process.

And then we're going through and collecting, you know, whether it's the open banking or whether we're doing the old school stuff.

But I think there's an opportunity sort of to go forward.

So could you unpack that a little bit about how open banking could change the game for fraud detection and prevention, please, Jason?

How do they start to get the message out to bring the customer in so they can educate the customer?

Look, and, and it's like anything, you mentioned it before, you know, broking's now making up circa eighty-one percent of the volume being produced in the residential market, so, you know, we've got the lion's share.

So now it's, your competition squarely is, yep, other brokers.

Your competition is digitized banking offers, you know, fin influencers.

You know, everybody's an expert.

So it's a highly competitive market out there, and again, no different from property management.

And I think when you look at what's making the difference now, especially if you think about the, again, the commoditization of the underlying offering, what you get paid to do, the ability for someone to stand out and create a brand and have that sort of, that thought leadership, that voice to the markets that you serve is becoming really, really important.

What's your recommendations?

Not just how can I adapt to make sure I survive, but how can I actually prosper off this? How can I adapt my business to make sure that I'm at the forefront of this change and it can work in my favour? How can we do that? Is that mainly a mindset thing? Is that a preparation thing? How can we kind of move businesses towards that framework?

I think it's at the core of what I do in my business, which is the revolution mentality, but not at evolution speed.

I think this evolution, we've got to change, but we can't do it at evolutionary pace.

That's why revolution happens in minutes and days.

Evolution happens in decades and centuries.

So I think at the moment, the idea of diversification, what other revenue streams, controversial things for many like fee-for-service or teaming up with complementary industries and started to look at solutions that haven't traditionally been just in the resi space is a good example.

If resi stayed...

So is it possible really for brokers to genuinely prepare for change or is the industry always going to be inherently reactive?

So as brokers adopt more specialized technology, how central is choosing the right CRM become to operating your brokerage effectively?

I've been quoted before and I'm on record as saying I prefer brokers only have one CRM.

Multiple CRMs, I know lots of brokers do use them.

Ideally, look, it's the foundation of your business.

So I suppose the questions around CRMs, there isn't a perfect CRM.

There's been lots of development of CRMs from the aggregators in recent years, especially around things like automated workflows in relation to automated delegation and I think they've done reasonably well in trying to dress, but at the light speed in which technology is changing, that's really difficult.

So I understand their pains.

So once a broker identifies a piece of new technology they want to adopt, say they came to the Broker Innovation Summit and they want to adopt something, what should their implementation process look like? How should they approach this?

But in a general situation, where do you see that?

Look, I think it's a really interesting one when I look at...

I talk to $20 million riders who are completely overwhelmed and chaotic, and I speak to $150 million riders who are calm, focused, and in control.

So again, how you approach your day, again, what you say yes and what you say no to.

And of course, there are caveats here around larger brokerages or those riding significant volume, having different resources and teams and stuff around them.

But Again, I don't think the difference here isn't talent.

It's really how they use their time because most brokers spend their day reacting to things like emails and phones and missing docs and MIRs and lender requests and urgent things that come across their desk.

So could you talk me through time blocking and how it can work particularly well within a broking business?

And obviously within that, different clients will have different needs and different clients will be relying on end of financial year more than others so obviously you know business lending of course comes to mind some of the lenders that i've been talking to here at broker daily you know they're really busy trying to get things across the line but obviously you've got to think about self-employed borrowers you've got to think about investors so when a broker kind of looks at their overall kind of Client base, where can they start the conversation off, do you think? Where's the best place to start?

Look, I mean, this has probably been a long drawn out saga for our industry when it comes to the quality of the data that we keep.

I mean, it continues to rely more and more heavily on not just the said names and date of births and occupations and those sort of things that we hold in our database, but the understanding that, again, those milestones that people are going through in their lives, you know, the areas in which that they work, whether they're self-employed or PAYG, whether they've got a strategy that's based around, you know, things like gearing and obviously huge changes to that taking place as we speak.

All those things become very much an advisory conversation, but that's only as good as what you know about your clients and also maybe how they see you as well.

Are you seen there as the transactor or are you seen there as the trusted advisor? So I think part of this is also thinking about how you're positioned to your clients and what it is that they actually want from you.

What do they value from you? I know that when I speak with my broker, we speak about all sorts of things.

They're not necessarily just aligned to my loans.

You see it as more than just a compliance exercise, right?

But to look inwards to the business, what opportunities exist when you use AI within backend administration and load and processing workflows? What are the gains there and what are the risks?

I mean, maybe we'll start off with the risks first.

Just quickly, like anything, I do remind brokers that no matter what you put into these systems, no matter what toggles you turn on and off when it comes to things like the ability for those models to learn off your information, that information is going to sit on a server somewhere.

And it's not going to be sitting on your aggregator server.

So you do need to be very mindful about what you're putting in.

You do need to speak to your aggregator about any privacy disclosure statements that you need to put on things like your website or in your privacy disclosure statements.

So be very cognizant of that.

Can you expand a little bit about how You know, you've potentially seen some more innovative ways that we use AI, such as that kind of dialogue way of using it.

But speaking of those competitive advantages, you alluded to them just then, but could you just outline those key advantages that you see in small teams that maybe larger businesses can't offer as well?

Yeah, it's a really interesting one right now, which is it's a fascinating one because speed is and agility is so important.

Because remember, the customers only want two things.

I keep saying it's over and over.

They want to know when they can have it and can they have it.

So I think...

If I'm seeing lots of bigger brokerages at the moment where they're getting drowned in submissions, which is a fantastic problem to have, but if you can't lodge an application within a couple of weeks because you're over your capacity and you've got a small operator down the road that can do it same day, the consumer's going to have some choices to make.

What's your kind of take on that in regards to a small team?

I think

there's a genuine relationship.

It's not just built on – it might start off as a little bit more business-related, but generally there's common connection.

There's threads through community.

It might even be you met on the golf course.

It might be that you've been introduced by friends or family.

I mean – I'm not really fast on how these relationships start.

What are your kind of thoughts on that about how that relationship operationally can work? with a real estate agent business in this instance.