Why reengage now? Why is now the time?

Well, it's not really re-engaging, Morgan.

And by the way, it's great to chat with you, especially with such a busy week in space ahead.

I mean, today was obviously an incredible day.

We had the Starship launch.

There's many more exciting milestones later this week, including NASA sending more astronauts to the International Space Station on Crew 13.

All that said, when the initial commercial crew program was established, the idea was always to have two providers that would be able to take our astronauts to and from Earth orbit to the International Space Station and maybe future commercial space stations.

What is your expectation around this launch market, especially since NASA is a key customer here and there is demand? in anticipation that you're going to see the Falcon fleet retire at some point from SpaceX and a lot of the capacity that Starship brings online actually going to that own company's own endeavors.

[upbeat music]

Good morning, everyone.

It is an absolute honor to be here at All In.

We are living through an extraordinary moment in history, aren't we? It took just sixty-five years from Orville and Wilbur's first flight to Neil and Buzz walking on the surface of the Moon.

Now, it's been fifty-seven years since Apollo 11, and for a while there, pace of progress hasn't been all that inspiring, but look at what is on the horizon right now.

We got artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, robotics, additive manufacturing, the promise of fusion energy, biotech to heal the disabled, autonomous transportation, this whole abundance thing everyone's talking about, all converging in the years ahead is beyond what most people can comprehend.

Our world will fundamentally change how we live, how we work, how we fight wars, how we reach out and touch the stars.

[applause]

Please welcome Jared Isaacman.

Good morning, everyone.

It is an absolute honor to be here at All In.

We are living through an extraordinary moment in history, aren't we? It took just sixty-five years from Orville and Wilbur's first flight to Neil and Buzz walking on the surface of the moon.

Now, it's been fifty-seven years since Apollo 11, and for a while there, pace of progress hasn't been all that inspiring, but look at what is on the horizon right now.

We got artificial intelligence, quantum technologies, robotics, additive manufacturing, the promise of fusion energy, biotech to heal the disabled, autonomous transportation, this whole abundance thing everyone's talking about, all converging in the years ahead is beyond what most people can comprehend.

Our world will fundamentally change how we live, how we work, how we fight wars, how we reach out and touch the stars.

[applauds]

So what does winning that race actually mean? Is it just a matter of strategic pride, planting a flag on the moon, or is there a strategic importance in establishing a lunar base on the moon before Chinese do?

Well, of course, we're very much in a space race.

I mean, this is a great power competition with China right now, not just in the ultimate high ground of space, but you see it across infrastructure and energy and AI, military capabilities below the water, on the water, air, and certainly in space.

The good news is, with respect to the last frontier, NASA has the playbook for success.

We're drawing upon that.

You couple it with President Trump's national space policy and the resources in the Working Family Tax Cut Act.

We are able to return NASA astronauts to the moon, establish that enduring presence, build the moon base on the South Pole where our astronauts, our robotic capabilities will interact with the water ice.

When you have people here in this country who are struggling to pay for grocery bills, to pay for gas, how do you explain to them the costs involved in that? And what kind of insights do we have into China's capabilities in actually establishing a lunar base on the moon?

Why can't we board a plane today, go to the edge of the atmosphere, maybe into the atmosphere, and land in Azerbaijan in two and a half hours? Why isn't that possible in this day and age? Feels like in 50 to 60 years we haven't gotten that far, or am I completely wrong about everything I'm saying right now?

No, no, you are absolutely spot on.

I mean, I'm a pilot, uh, an aerospace enthusiast, and I can tell you, yes, for the longest period of time, we have gotten comfortable, right? We, we stretch the plane a little bit.

We get, you know, 3 or 4% more efficiency out of the engines.

Maybe we update the, the avionics in the, in the cockpit.

We have gone so far from the breakthrough, you know, radical airframe and propulsion designs of, of decades past, but that is changing.

I can tell you, at least within NASA, the first A in aeronautics, we're down to one X plane.

What is, what do we anticipate learning and facilitating with, uh, an eventual Moon base?

example of of that trying to make everyone happy

Oh, well, for almost the entirety of the SLS vehicle that successfully launched the Artemis II mission was repurposed hardware from the space shuttle.

And now you come to the end of the shuttle program, and you've got this industrial base that wants to know, what should we do next? You could design a whole brand new program from the get-go for what is an optimized vehicle to do the job, or you keep everybody doing what they were doing already, and you just repurpose it together into a new vehicle.

And as a result, it's not necessarily perfectly optimized for the mission.

Then I'd say you bring in international partners when you're not faced with a global competitor and you try and make things work, and then you get other parts of the vehicle that aren't designed to perform as what you would have initially hoped for in that.

Then those are all compromises.

So I would say the whole reboot of the Moon program has had varying challenges throughout its existence.

How far away are we from that? How important is that to this whole journey?

Yeah

When you look at the constraints that you're facing culturally at NASA, you know, there used to be this huge, uh, mantra that, uh, failure is not an option, right? And you're, you're clearly the- your mindset is one of nonstop experimentation and learning.

What are the biggest hurdles that you're facing in ch- shifting the culture inside NASA to something like the new model of how we build organizations? Well, I would just say that I, I don't think, uh, the culture of a, uh, a- and I don't wanna even say accepting more risk.

It, it really, a lot of what you see, at least I'm- in my opinion, uh, when you see some of the things that SpaceX have done and how they choose to operate, is very similar to how NASA operated, uh, you know, in the 1960s.

I mean, we had the same 20-something-year-olds that were, you know, burning themselves [laughs] out, uh, you know, brilliant minds doing incredible things, making tough decisions, extreme ownership, moving with urgency.

Uh, and look, how many, you, you know, people talk about NASA doesn't, uh, blow up rockets.

Uh, go back into the 19th, uh, late 1950s, early 1960s on YouTube, and you can see plenty examples of, uh, of our iterative design philosophy not working out initially, uh, and then rolling in, uh, what we learned into, um, uh, you know, into, into subsequent versions.

Back in the '60s

Why, in your view, is it so important that America maintain a presence in space?

Well, I've, I've been lucky to be in space twice and have that perspective and an appreciation for just the scale of it all.

I mean, uh, the best way to describe it, like we are understanding, uh, our progress on what I think is the greatest adventure in human history is literally just dipping your toe in the grandest ocean of all.

I mean, just an appreciation.

I mean, we are lucky.

We are lucky that we have been gifted a moon that's four and a half days away as a proving ground to continue to venture out, and we've just begun it all.

I mean, all that we stand to learn from a scientific perspective, economic potential.

Are you still confident it's gonna go off as scheduled?

Why did NASA choose that kind of a model where you're beginning to have pretty big companies who are gonna take responsibility for doing this? What's the advantage from America's standpoint to doing it this way?

Well, this is a good question, and I think people often forget, too, in the 1960s when NASA set out and achieved the near impossible on July 20th, 1969, when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the Moon, we didn't do it alone.

You had Boeing, you had McDonald Douglas.

Grumman built the lunar lander that took the astronauts to the surface.

Now, many of those companies still help NASA today, and then there's new companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin and Rocket Lab and others.

And I acknowledge they bring a different kind of flair to this, right? And it often asks people about why do you even need NASA when you have companies like that? And it's like, no, we do this together.

We had a lot of success with the commercial cargo resupply program that SpaceX and Northrop Grumman have done a good job at.

[upbeat music] How would you describe how you see the evolution of commercial space over the next ten or twenty years?

So for people who wonder about that, what is the reason why it's been so long?

Well, it's a great question.

And for a while, we weren't trying.

So I think that's important.

You know, it's like Artemis II's first time we've sent humans around into the lunar environment in 53 years.

Well, we haven't been trying to go back for 53 years.

I mean, we did the near impossible on July 20th, 1969, where Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the moon, and then we brought them home safely.

You know, my podcast is Real Talk with Zuby just because I ask the questions that I genuinely want to know the answers to.

And I was talking to the NASA administrator, Jared Isaacman, about this, and, and he actually said that this mission is actually more complicated than Artemis II going to the moon because you're talking about several different launches that have to happen.

In a span of call it a, a couple weeks, three weeks probably at most, you're gonna see the three most powerful rockets in the world, and those, uh, those spacecraft are all gonna converge in low Earth orbit as you get- undertake this multi-spacecraft rendezvous and docking, um, you know, uh, effort.

Uh, and remember, so we had Artemis II this year, then Artemis III is next year, and then the next one after that is to land on the moon.

This is just the beginning.

You know, if you think about 50 years past and what the next 50 years are gonna look like, you're gonna see more people living and working in space.

You're gonna see an orbital economy.

You're gonna have multiple commercial space stations.

We spoke with the NASA administrator, Jared Isaacman, about the timeline for a Moon base.

base.Starting in 2027, you should see a, see a near monthly cadence, uh, of la- uh, robotic landers on the moon, several rovers.

In fact, we init- we, we provided an award for the first two, uh, you know, uh, crewed and autonomous, uh, capable rovers for the lunar surface.

So when our astronauts arrive on Artemis IV in 2028, they're gonna already have some infrastructure at the moon base waiting for them.

They're already gonna have a rover waiting for them.

And then in that timeframe, it's not just intermittent anymore, it's not just those monthly visits, but when do you think people will be working, humans might even be living in some capacity on the moon there?

So, uh, we are approaching the moon base, uh, in phases.

So phase one is a lot of littles.

D- have, has your thinking on that changed, and what, what led you to make those comments? What is it that you see about a future economy in space, indeed on the Moon, um, that, that maybe industry is overstating or the outside world is overstating?

Well, look, I'm, I'm...

Just to be clear, I want nothing more than to see an orbital economy.

I wanna see a, a lunar economy, uh, come to fruition.

I want lots of commercial space stations, lots of outposts on the Moon.

I want my kids to grow up in a world where maybe they could go to the Moon, and then we press on, uh, we press on to Mars.

Uh, I think it's my job when I, when I take a look at the resources that are entrusted into the agency by Congress, by the taxpayers every single year, to make sure, um, you know, that we maximize the scientific and discovery value out of every, every bit of it.

How do you see the Chinese focus on the moon and, and whether it is a real competitive force versus NASA right now?

Has your thinking on that changed? And what led you to make those comments? What is it that you see about a future economy in space, indeed on the moon, that maybe industry is overstating or the outside world is overstating?

Well, look, just to be clear, I want nothing more than to see an orbital economy.

I want to see a lunar economy come to fruition.

I want lots of commercial space stations, lots of outposts on the moon.

I want my kids to grow up in a world where maybe they could go to the moon and then we press on to Mars.

I think it's my job when I take a look at the resources that are entrusted into the agency by Congress, by the taxpayers every single year to make sure that we maximize the scientific and discovery value out of every bit of it.

And that results in making kind of a build-buy partner decision on almost every procurement.

How do you see the Chinese focus on the moon and whether it is a real competitive force versus NASA right now?

How do you get them to come to work for you?

First and foremost is you gotta just inspire the next generation.

They gotta wanna grow up and, and work for NASA.

Fortunately, that hasn't been too much of a problem for us.

Uh, we had 200 and some odd thousand internship applications, uh, this past year.

We took the top 1%, so that's good.

And then you launch missions like Artemis II, Artemis III.

What exactly are you looking for?

Recorded at the a16z American Dynamism Summit, Morgan Brennan speaks with NASA administrator Jared Isaacman about what it will take to get there.

It's great to be here with so many entrepreneurs, operators, investors, and policymakers who are helping us build the next golden age of space exploration.

I love being around the people who not only look up and imagine what is possible, but possess the experiences and the will to bring ideas into reality.

There is no organization, I can tell you, that appreciates that kind of determination more than NASA.

On that note, in the weeks ahead, America will send the brave Artemis II astronauts potentially farther into space than any humans have ever traveled in generations, flying around the moon on a ten-day mission to test the space launch system rocket and Orion spacecraft before returning home to Earth.

Now, President Donald Trump took the decisive steps of establishing the Artemis program during his first term.

He recently, in fact, it was the day that I was sworn into this position, reaffirmed America's commitment to space superiority, giving NASA a clear mandate and a focus to return to the moon, build a base, so this time we return to stay.

But first, I have to start with this idea of NASA Force and this idea of bringing talent into NASA and making NASA great again, cool again.

What does that mean for the role of NASA as we try and achieve these things?

It's interesting.

I get that question all the time because there are some new names.

You have your SpaceX's and Blue Origins that get everyone's attention.

It's like, where does NASA fit in? I remind folks, you go back to the 1960s.

You had Boeing.

You had McDonnell Douglas built the Gemini spacecraft.

What could this be? What do you tell people? How imaginative do you need to be?

Yeah.

I remind folks, you go back to the 1960s, you had Boeing, you had McDonnell, bu- Douglas built the Gemini spacecraft.

You had, uh, Grumman that built the lander that put the astronauts on the Moon.

Many of those players still exist today, but we have some new ones, SpaceX, Blue Origin.

NASA's at its best when we are doing the near impossible, what no other agency, company, nation in the world is capable of accomplishing.

And when we figure it out, if NASA can be one customer of many, we hand it off to industry and let competitive dynamics make it better, cost less.

Launch is a great example right now.

There's an argument, why focus on space when we have a lot of problems here on Earth to fix? Can you give us a sense of some of the scientific progress that's coming from some of these programs that has real-world application beyond just necessarily hyperscalers on the Moon?

Can you tell us i- in terms of, uh, the, the objectives th- that you are looking for in terms of, of science and, and testing out systems for a, uh, for a future, uh, landing on the Moon, what, what did we, what did we find out yesterday?

Well, I would say so far, and again, this, this is really from the moment they arrived in Earth orbit, uh, our interest was predominantly with the ECLSS system, uh, the life support system on the Orion spacecraft.

This is the first time astronauts have ever been on the spacecraft.

This was the first time astronauts have ever been on the actual rocket itself that put them into space.

And, and this is incredibly important.

It is, it is extremely hard, you know, to keep human beings alive in the, uh, the harsh environment of space, right? I mean, you, you, you, you've got radiation out there.

You've got micrometeors and orbital debris.

So the, the landers will be in orbit when, when, um, it goes up, and it'll, th- there'll be docking and then a thrust to the Moon, and then the landers go down and it, it, sorta similar to, to LM and, uh, lunar landing module that we had back in, in Apollo?

What are the plans for the base, the goals for the base? How important is it to have it there before China or anybody else? I mean, for optimal placement, uh, for one thing.

Yeah, there's no question.

Look, I think competition is a good thing.

It worked out really well for us in the 1960s.

It's a great way to motivate your workforce, pull together the great contributions from across industry and international partners.

Obviously, you don't wanna lose.

We won the first space race.

I mean, the, the, the challenges are just, are so much larger.

What are the plans for the base, the goals for the base? How important is it to have it there before China or anybody else? I mean, for optimal placement, uh, for one thing.

Yeah, there's no question.

Look, I think competition is a good thing.

It worked out really well for us in the 1960s.

It's a great way to motivate your workforce, pull together the great contributions from across industry and international partners.

Obviously, you don't wanna lose.

We won the first space race, we'll win it again.

I mean, the, the, the challenges are just, are so much larger.

Well, if we went decades ago, why haven't we been able to figure out how to get back?"

It's a fair question.

Let me just be, like, overwhelmingly clear as the head of NASA, an astronaut, and a lifelong space enthusiast, yes, we absolutely went to the Moon.

I've spoken directly with the astronauts that have been on the Moon, that have walked on the Moon.

I have a moon rock in my office that was picked up by Harrison Schmitt on Apollo 17, and I've spoken to him about it, and he still studies a lot of the samples that we have.

In fact, if you went to the ignition event earlier this week, we put a bunch of our moon rocks that we picked up in the 1960s and early 1970s and put them on display.

We absolutely did it, but it's a fair question.

How do you avoid making some of the same mistakes of the past with this mission?

Administrator, can you tell us what would this be able to do? And, and, and are we setting up the basic infrastructure here for a whole new generation or new generations of space travel, leveraging space for things here on Earth, including low Earth orbit, uh, uh, things like the data centers that will be able to be put there? I mean, what, what does the future of this look like? I know this amazing launch is coming up, but what's gonna be happening after?

after?Yeah, absolutely.

Well, let me tell you about it.

So, uh, let's talk about the astronaut side of things.

So tomorrow, Artemis II is gonna launch.

We're gonna send four astronauts farther into space than we've ever sent humans before.

They're gonna go faster than humans have ever, ever traveled before.

Can you speak to that? And also why, from a national security perspective, space, NASA, what's going on right now with this program is so important?

Well, if we went decades ago, why haven't we been able to figure out how to get back?"

It's a fair question.

Let me just be, like, overwhelmingly clear as the head of NASA, an astronaut, and a lifelong space enthusiast, yes, we absolutely went to the Moon.

I've spoken directly with the astronauts that have been on the Moon, that have walked on the Moon.

I have a moon rock in my office that was picked up by Harrison Schmitt on Apollo 17, and I've spoken to him about it, and he still studies a lot of the samples that we have.

In fact, if you went to the ignition event earlier this week, we put a bunch of our moon rocks that we picked up in the 1960s and early 1970s and put them on display.

We absolutely did it, but it's a fair question.

How do you avoid making some of the same mistakes of the past with this mission?

All of this exploration of the great beyond and the mysteries that intertwine all of it, how does that affect your relationship with a creator, with God? What is, what, what does the mysteries of the universe unraveled tell you? All great minds have, that have, that have thought of these things or reached for the stars eventually come to this, to some realization about their relationship with the creator.

You know, I'll tell you, I mean, I, you know, I've been to space twice, and, uh, I think it's very hard to be there and not be somewhat spiritual, um, because you just have an appreciation for, you know, how small we are in the grand scheme of things, like the enormity of what's around us, um, and, like, it had to have all started, like, somewhere, right? We don't have, you know, uh, an answer for that right now.

So the idea that maybe this was all part of some extraordinary grand design is, um, you know, those thoughts have to go through your mind.

Like, it, it's, um, it's just, it's too interesting of a perspective not to, not to kind of go down that road, I think.

So, um, but it is.

Like, this is, this is what we are pursuing right now.

We are gonna learn so much, you know, in the years ahead, and I absolutely believe we were destined to do this, to go out, to explore, and to seek out a lot of those answers, and they're waiting for us.

Uh-huh