Mm.

Uh, so that can be, that can be really useful.

Uh, so then you wanna spend time actually thinking about what you've just read, and this is the important bit, and the word that I'm gonna say here is slow.

It's just finding whatever strategy works for you to slow down and, and give the, the words that you're reading an opportunity to sink in in some way.

And then finishing by prayer again.

This is where we respond to whatever it is that we've discovered, and we, we then talk to Jesus, so it becomes like a conversation.

So he spoke to us through his Word, and then we speak to him through, um, yeah, whatever it is that, that we've learned.

May you encounter Jesus more today as you seek Him each and every day.

[laughs]

I, I [laughs] do that too, and I will read the same book over and over because I can immerse myself in the experience that the book is giving me.

But a lot of the time we're reading for information, and, and we're trying to understand the information, and we might even be trying to retain the information.

Um, but yeah, it's, it's kind of information based.

When we read the Bible that way, and we do need to read the Bible that way too, because there is information that the Bible is wanting to give us about, um, uh, the, the best way to live, for example.

Um, and when you read the Bible for the first time, of course, if you're reading a story for the first time, your brain needs to pick up on the information to understand the story.

But when we only read for information, we get to a point where we go, "Well, I know the information.

Mm.

When you're trying to understand what somebody's really like, how much difference is there between hearing what other people say and actually hearing from them yourself?

Yes, hearing what other people say can be a useful starting place.

Or not.

Or not, exactly.

Because when you hear what someone else says, it is filtered through their experience, their judgments perhaps.

Mm-hmm.

You might get differing opinions, contradictions that you've then got to try and figure out.

and that just blows me away yeah

um i guess that leading on from what you were just saying there um What does it tell us about God when we look at creation? Or what sort of things can we learn about God when we look at the created world and the intricacies of the creation?

Okay.

You might have to stop me as I get excited here.

So I think we see detail, God's attention to detail.

I think I mentioned that last time I was in, actually.

So God's attention to detail, but also His extravagance.

Yeah, the way He is so generous in what He provides for us and and gives us, yeah, I just, I love this, this contrast between, between the teeny tiny details and then the enormity of, of what he's created.

That God cares even for the sparrow, but the sparrow is not anywhere near the tiniest of things.

Janelle, what else did we read in that passage?

Well, I kind of noticed something along those lines, Ben, that it actually begins with Moses tending the flock.

So he's gone back to the heritage of his ancestors who, when they entered Egypt, that's what they did.

They tended Pharaoh's flocks because that's what they were good at.

And it was something that an Egyptian would never want to do.

It was the lowest of the low jobs.

So he's gone from being a prince of Egypt to actually taking on board that kind of heritage.

Is there anything significant about God saying, I am the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob? Is there anything meaningful to that? For Moses, do you think at all? Maybe Janelle?

Yeah.

Um, so she has to trust, trust the, the child to the sister, and the sister does a sterling job, can I just say? Keeps an eye on the baby, but also has the courage to then run up to the third woman, who happens to be Pharaoh's daughter.

Now, if you're a young Hebrew girl and you're a slave to the Egyptians, and this woman's dad is the one who is actually commanding the death [laughs] of all the-

Um, I'm just thinking, uh, can, can you imagine, would there, do you think there would've been a tension there? Uh, is there anything that you've read that suggests that, Janelle?

Yeah, I was literally just reading this before, um, before we started the program.

But in Hebrews it actually talks about how, uh, Moses eventually, and I don't want to give away spoilers either, but he had to make a decision, but it talks about, uh, this is Hebrews 11 from verse 24.

It talks about how he could have owned the treasures of Egypt.

Janelle, have you got a moment?

Well, as a parent like Jason, I'm sure there were times where I had to intervene.

Nora and I were talking last night trying to come up with whether I'd had to intervene during a swimming lesson at some stage.

And I can't remember a specific example.

But in general, one of the things that comes to mind as a parent is that you need to stop your kids running across the road.

So you put things in place to make sure they don't do that.

Well, in my case, my other son, Levi, who listeners will know from this program, he had to actually intervene to prevent me running across the road one day.

Did I catch that right or not?

Let's read that 'cause it, it's, it's a beautiful passage.

Yeah.

So this passage means a lot to me.

So it's Philippians 4:6-9, and this is from the New Living Translation again.

"Don't worry about anything; instead, pray about everything.

Tell God what you need, and thank Him for all He has done.

Then you will experience God's peace, which exceeds anything we can understand.

Mm.

[laughs]

Um, sometimes it's nice to do that.

I just wanna put that out there.

Sometimes I like to have a jammie day.

So yeah, not dishing that.

But I think most people probably get dressed.

Um, most people would probably have a shower, although I know in our household, uh, to make that all fit in, some members shower at night rather than in the morning.

Perfect, yeah

What does it mean, do you think, to remain in him?

Well, if you think about the way a branch remains in a vine, there is some external strength and there is an internal flow of life and vitality.

Um, so I guess in terms of remaining in Christ, I think what we're looking for is that he becomes our strength, the thing that enables us to, um, to live each day with all of the stuff that's, that's happening around us.

But also that there is a flow between, between me and him, that there are things that are going in both directions, communication, um, that is heading in both directions.

Um-

Mm.

Um, "So I'm in control of those." And yeah, we, we forget actually that we can submit everything to God.

Um, all of our plans, all of our dreams, all of our hopes, every moment of our day, we can actually submit and stay connected to Him.

It's about having that connection with Jesus that actually brings life to the world.

Yeah, and what we've got here is we've got heaven and we've got the world and we've got Jesus bringing those two together in a way that wouldn't have been possible without him.

So I guess if we're thinking about him in terms of bread and we're thinking about him in terms of the one who manages to bring those two worlds together, who can bring heaven and earth together, who can reconnect us to God, spending that time actually But understanding who Jesus is, what he has done, what he wants to do, that can actually really nourish our faith.

Because there are times when we're living in this world where there's so much going on in this world that it's hard to just see beyond what's happening moment by moment in this life.

And I guess he's giving us an invitation to actually look up and have confidence as to what he has achieved and is achieving for us and to let that nourish us and bring us peace and bring us well-being that is beyond just what happens day to day in this life.

But In the next hour, what might it look like in practice to stay focused on Christ?

That's a really good question.

So I think that it is recognising when my mind is getting busy with other things and stopping for a moment and just speaking a word to Jesus and just having a quiet moment.

I would find it odd if the blessing was only from a numerical kind of thing, which then makes me wonder, why do you think the Egyptians were afraid of the Israelites? Now, I know in the text it says because they were numerous, right? But is there anything else there, Janelle, like touching on, you know, if the Israelites were actually doing good things for Egypt, why do you think they might have been scared? It's a bit speculative, I know, but yeah.

Yeah, I think Pharaoh perhaps was feeling a bit tormented torn about about what to do because um on the one hand he didn't necessarily want these people there continuing to grow stronger and stronger and stronger and more numerous but on the other hand he didn't want to lose all the benefits he was getting from them in terms of all that um infrastructure being built and if you think about the culture at the time um pharaoh's greatness depended on him building an empire that was better than than the one he'd received he needed to hand on something that was better than what he received yes you know that that's how he would be remembered that's how he would um you know enter into the next phase of of life in in his belief system

you.

So I think sometimes there's... power imbalance and I think as human beings we are constantly measuring ourselves against everyone else around us and figuring out where we fit that you know maybe I'm above those people but I'm below those people you know and aspiring to climb up ladders you know we talk about climbing up ladders professionally, for example, but I think we try and do that personally.

We see that a lot on social media where we try and present ourselves a certain way so that, you know, we appear to be – in a certain place in the social hierarchy, yeah, to keep up with the Joneses, for example.

But we don't want to keep up with the Joneses.

We want to exceed the Joneses, right? Yeah.

When have you escaped?

Okay, so I'm not going to tell you what I escaped from.

Okay.

But I'm going to tell you how I responded.

Okay.

So you've heard the terminology fight or flight.

Yes.

humanity's rebellion and the old testament promise and i just kind of want to dive into a couple of those hot spots just so that we've got them in the back of our mind as we go into exodus in this this ongoing series um you know would you mind praying and then jump take us straight to the very first verse of the bible genesis 1 1

One

minute? I'll look at the timer.

So this story is found in Luke chapter 15, and I encourage you to read it for yourself because I won't give you a perfect retelling of it.

But essentially what's happened is that there is a family and the father has two sons.

And in the culture of the day, there is an expectation that when the father passes away, The inheritance will be divided up between the sons.

Usually the eldest son gets the greater inheritance, but there will still be something for the youngest son.

But in this particular story, the youngest son wants to know if he can take his inheritance now.

going to happen with me.

most of us realise that there's still some issues within ourselves that need addressing.

Yeah, and what is the standard that we're holding ourselves to when we ask that question? It's always going to be a standard that is above where we currently are.

Yeah, so I think that's a really difficult place to be in.

But at the same time, I think it's a very natural place to be in and I've been a Christian for many years now and I still sometimes get an unpleasant shock when I discover that I'm still doing this.

Yeah, and I caught myself about a year or so ago realising that that in some way in the back of my mind I thought that I was trying to please God in order to gain his love or approval instead of realising I already have his love and approval and it's not dependent on how good I am at pleasing him or not pleasing him.

Like I had it round the wrong way.

And it was almost a shock to me to realise that that's how I was relating to God.

yes

So when you put the three together, you have a real faith.

Yeah.

So then belief and trust, I'll tell you what I think they are and you can tell me if you've got the same idea.

So for me, belief is more about the knowledge and the way that my mind kind of interacts with what I'm learning about God.

It's an intellectual belief.

Trust is more relational.

This is where I'm getting to know God and starting to have some confidence in who he is and what he wants.

Do you want to give us a little bit more background on that story before we read just the punchline here?

But this is not one of those things.

No, and the rest of the discussion, as you say, is sort of part of this bigger discussion of prayer.

But he talks about if a child needed a meal, would a parent give them a scorpion or a snake instead? Like a parent knows what the child needs.

Now, the child doesn't want to be given their broccoli and their Brussels sprouts and their peas and for some reason all the green things.

No.

But a loving parent will still give their child those things because they know that the child needs them.

The loving parent knows that's a good gift.

That's it, getting to know him and many of the steps I think that we've been working through over these past programs, getting to acknowledge where we're at and not being fearful of putting our request to God but actually going with a certain level of trust and faith and confidence that, When we ask according to his will, what pleases him, and where do you think is the best place we can find out where that is? How do we know? If somebody's saying, yeah, but I don't know what God's will is.

You're meant to be on holidays.

I'm meant to be on holidays and I had in my mind an idea of what this holiday time would look like because I really felt like I needed the rest.

And so I was looking forward to all these days where I didn't have a huge amount of things to do and activities that I had planned that I felt were going to give me that sense of rest and relaxation so I could head into next semester feeling good and ready to go.

And life, as you say, doesn't always work that way and life is messy.

And so, yeah, all these things had happened and I've already had a few weeks off and I hadn't yet even had one day that had worked out the way that I had planned.

And I was starting to feel really frustrated with this and really almost slightly panicked that I wasn't going to get the rest that I wanted.

It was almost like an anxiety attack.

Do you ever feel like that? I know I should exercise, but I don't feel like exercising.

Before we ask ourselves, what do I have to give up?

Yeah, I think with Paul, one thing I really like about Paul, I think he'd have made a great psychologist actually.

He really understands that there are two parts to what we need to do.

He's often showing us what not to do, but he always adds to that, well, here is what you do do.

He never sort of leaves us in this position of you've just got to stop doing things, you've just got to give things up, and then that kind of leaves you empty.

He's always saying, well, you give that up, but it's sort of so that you can embrace this.

Hmm.

ever imagine that, you know.

But it ends in this type of description here.

Yeah.

So it describes it as an illness that's in our heart.

And this is something that I've been mulling over recently, what sin looks like.

And as you know, Jason, and a lot of our listeners will know that I'm living with cancer.

My particular cancer sends out a whole lot of teeny tiny tumours that you would never know are there, but they're doing damage.

Right.

Yeah.

But it brings the question, so what does it really mean? And what's the difference with just giving God a little bit of our attention versus all of our heart?

Yeah, so attention kind of implies behaviour or interest or knowledge.

This idea challenges me, to be honest, because I love spending time in the Bible.

I love spending time discussing the Bible.

That's why I come and do these programs with you, Jason.

But sometimes I forget... that as well as trying to understand what it says and share that with other people and the joy of that, I also need to let it actually sink deep into me and change me.

And when we talk about this all being based on love, what happens inside? is actually the important thing because from that, the outside things will change.

But I think it means that we're oriented in the direction of Christ.