And it was also about writing as thinking.

I think that there's a lot of... really interesting work being done on how to teach writing and how we can help writers when they're struggling.

But a lot of what you end up doing when you're working with students, either in the classroom or one-on-one outside the classroom, is just being a really attentive reader.

So I was listening.

I was paying attention.

For whatever reason, I never lost interest in in whatever was in front of me, right? It was always an interesting problem to solve.

Somebody has an idea, they don't quite have an idea, they're trying to develop an idea.

So what's the student's, you know, from your experience?