But I wonder if you were surprised that Radio 4 has been so heavily hit by these cuts to the news budget.

I was a bit surprised.

I mean, I think it's important to understand how Radio 4 schedules work.

And it's a patchwork, if you like, of programs built around some big peaks in listening, which come through the new sequences.

The biggest of that is the Today program.

Then the next wave is at one o'clock as you go into World at One.

Then there's another wave of 12pm, 6 o'clock news and into the comedy.

Can you talk us through what might have gone through the minds of the commissioners who were in charge of that decision?