What's something that perhaps you wish you could have done again but differently?

I think, um, one of my observations, and it's not any particular bank or any particular organization, is that we confuse organizational structure change with transformation.

Right? And, and, and we're even doing some of that in this organization, and I'm spending quite a bit of time reminding us that once the lines and boxes are drawn and people have been placed in those lines and boxes, you actually really need to think about what are the new ways of working, how are the processes different, how do they get work done in the new structure? Because I remember I was in a large organization and we did a, a project, and I won't say the name of the project 'cause it would reveal the organization, but it was a really massive org design, um, across the entire organization.

I was wrangling a spreadsheet of 12,000 names with old title, new title, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And, you know, it was really an exercise in trying to extract headcount out, and so we did walk 500 people out of the business at that particular time, and then we put everyone into this new organization structure.

It was quite different.

And I watched for the next six months people trying to work out how to do their old job in the new structure.

... is it more important to love, um, to own your business and love the business, or is it more important to work with people that, you know, professional people that you love working with?