how do you see it manifesting like why don't we why don't we talk about like relationships and even in the workplace what do you see

It's partly culture, and that's what we just talked about, the senior moment.

It's partly about segregation because this is about across generations.

So ageism could affect younger people just the same as older people.

We have older people saying, oh, well, you know, at that age I did.

So it's across the life course, but it also sits in institutions.

So ageism can be seen structurally or systematically across health, across workforce, across the data and research that we do.

So how do you address some of these underlying truths that drive some of this narrative? What do you think about that?

I'm sorry for your loss, and that must have been very difficult, but, um, it's interesting how that was the, the root of kind of your, your journey.

Yeah.

Look, there's, there's no question it was the root to my journey, and he called me the day before he died, and he said, uh, um, "I'm just calling to say goodbye because I'm not gonna be here.

They can't do anything more." So I've had some really critical moments.

Um, another great story in my life was when my dad was dying in the hospice, and I'd go and, and go to him every day and take Mom, and this, this one afternoon, I walked in, and he had a pillow over his head, and I said, "Oh, for goodness sake, can't you do anything better than that?"

Yeah.

Um, and you know, as I've said, I'm a, a multiple culprit when it comes to marriage.

But I've noticed that, you know, our love and care for one another has softened and strengthened- Through, you know, being together for 25 years, coming from a foreign country, coming from Australia, and, and living in Canada, and he gave up his job to come and, and help me in this organization.

And I'm curious to start off by asking, is ageism improving in society? Is it worsening? What's happening? And what do we know from the research?

It's a fundamental question, isn't it? I think it's important to be really clear about what is ageism.

It's the way we think, stereotypes, the way we feel, you know, which is our prejudice, and the way that we act, which is discrimination.

about being old, growing older and aging.

And so ageism is not marginal.

The WHO global report on ageism found that one in every two people, so every second person, holds moderately or highly ageist attitudes towards older people.

And WHO talks about three forms of ageism, self-identifying, and I can tell you a very embarrassing story about this self-identification, interpersonal, between two people, and institutional, what happens in the systems.

Where does this come from?

... who are older or, or, or younger, but, but how do you get to this point?

Well, y- y- as you've just indicated, you know, cottage country, you just come together around a joy, around a hobby, around a purpose.

Um, and almost age doesn't come into the conversation.

And Marissa, your, your producer, just told me that she sat next to, you know, an older person on the plane and talked all the way.

So age wasn't part of the conversation.

It was about the experiences that you have together.

And quite often as we grow older, you know, the, the exhaustion that you feel mid-career, quite often it's, it's useful, helpful to hear experience of an older person, how they got through it.

Yeah.