[laughs]

...

the grid pattern in water.

[clears throat] And I've still got it, but I don't use it.

I use Soluflax, which is, you know, and I can draw on it, as long as you're not drawing on it with anything wet.

And so the first bit is I draw, I have two layers because I do so many thicknesses of chain and hand.

Uh, I'm not always using it to make it lacy, I'm just using it 'cause I love the fabric I make to stitch into because I can really introduce m- m- the color so anything can integrate into the background and so on, because I, I'm not really keen on stitching on a white background and there's, the white background is more important than the stitching.

So, uh, just, just to go back, 'cause I know obviously we've, we've touched on, on Jean Littlejohn, but I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about how your collaboration with her came about and what it did to your practice.