Talk us through how we've been able to keep it, bird flu at bay, this particular strain, and what readiness looks like for our islands of Aotearoa, New Zealand.

So we've really just been, um, fortunate that we, we are once again just a small island at the, the end of the world, and so just as it took COVID a long time to get to us, um, it's taken a long way for this, um, HPAI to spread from the Northern Hemisphere where it first outbroke many years ago all the way around to us in New Zealand, but we have been prepared.

I was, um, chairing the board of our local Auckland, uh, bird rehabilitation center, BirdCare Aotearoa, who already years ago were taking part in the equivalent of war games where we could simulate what happens when a major disease like this strikes New Zealand and how do all the teams get together.

And, and in New Zealand now, MPI will be the lead agency that takes over when it's first detected here, but they'll be working with, um, with everyone really, the Department of Conservation and the Ministry of Health, uh, and others to, to be prepared for that spread.

And, um, and then hopefully we'll see on the frontline places like, um, BirdCare Aotearoa, the other bird rehabilitation centers around New Zealand, um, getting, getting an influx of these birds, and that's when we just have to be really careful to manage, manage these birds and, and manage people as well.

It's got a very low risk of transmitting to humans, but nonetheless, um, when people see a lot of birds dying in large numbers, it will be traumatic and they'll want to do things they've always done, like take those birds to rehabilitation centers.

And of course, some of these birds will just be dying, unfortunately, from the many reasons that, that we already know they die from car strike and, and pet cat and dog attacks, but there'll also be now this added threat of, uh, the H5N1.

Or not to do

What impacts could these two changes have on conservation in New Zealand?

I think that's the key point here.

The bill's trying to wrap up a whole bunch of things into one, and that is both the economic enabling conditions on conservation land as well as, where appropriate, the exchange or disposal of conservation land.

And so I think a really interesting starting point is going back to when the Department of Conservation was formed in 1987, and that was a big times in New Zealand government and the merger there was bringing together a bunch of agencies, duties under one umbrella organisation being the Department of Conservation.

So in particular you saw the Forest Service, the New Zealand Forest Service, the Department of Lands and Survey and the New Zealand Wildlife Service come together and so with that their land came together and they all got put under the Department of Conservation and And I think that was a really good thing for New Zealand to do back then because our Department of Conservation is hands down the envy of the world.

We hosted a conference on island invasive species in February this year and people around the world were just going, New Zealand, how do you do it? How do you have a single Department of Conservation looking after 33% of your land and doing it so well.

And that's where we see the real power of the Department of Conservation, that they just have all of this land that they can manage in totality across New Zealand for the benefits of conservation.

Are you happy with the amount of protections for our native flora, fauna and kind of general ecosystem?

It's

like either they go, oh, I just want to give them this little thing and they can do that without any context.

They're like, oh, I just want someone to do my bookkeeping here, this little piece.

Or they go, I just need to find a mini me and they just take it.

It's gone too far.

It's one or the other.

They're like famine or flood as opposed to having a structured approach to go, you know what? This can happen.

So first thing