But what about internally, James? Have you guys always had that belief?

Yeah, absolutely.

We've spoken a lot about, even from the start of pre-season, about our next man up mentality and acknowledge that it's going to take a whole squad to win a premiership and it doesn't just happen overnight.

Your best 23 might not be there on the last day in September, so we really back our whole list and our system and our process and back each player to get back to that when times get tough and we expect that to happen again tomorrow night.

What's it been like for Callum and for you boys? I imagine you're getting around your skipper trying to throw an arm over him.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was devastating.

As you said, the way Millsy conducted himself over the last month especially, but he never wavers in the way he leads our footy club.

But what about internally, James? Have you guys always had that belief?

Yeah, absolutely.

We've spoken a lot about, even from the start of pre-season, about our next man up mentality and acknowledge that it's going to take a whole squad to win a premiership and it doesn't just happen overnight and Your best 23 might not be there on the last day in September, so we really back our whole list and our system and our process.

back to each player to get back to that when times get tough, and we expect that to happen again tomorrow night.

For Callum and for you boys, I imagine you're getting around your skipper trying to throw an arm over him.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was devastating.

As you said, the way Millsy conducted himself over the last month especially, but he never wavers in the way he leads our footy club.

What do you put that down to?

As I said, we're still playing some reasonably good footy amongst those losses.

We've come up against some really good opposition in those games and just unfortunately haven't been able to sustain it for four quarters.

I think if we can put four quarters of our best footy together, we're still very confident of where our game sits and hopefully we can find that before finals.

Okay, and for the Giants, no Toby Green, but who else do you have to watch out for?

Oh, they're midfield and half-back lines, obviously, where a lot of their ball movement and contest gets going from.

Obviously, Clary and Finn Callaghan in the middle and Locky Ash and Whitfield off the back provide a lot of run and gun for them.

And then they're obviously very talented up forward.

Are you looking forward to that just to get an exact bearing on where you will feel you are as a footy club this year?

Yeah, absolutely.

Obviously, Fremantle are the benchmark and there's probably no bigger challenge to go over there and try and beat them on their home deck in the form that they're in.

And, yeah, personnel, who's there or not, we just focus on who's out there on the field.

I think the pleasing thing throughout this season compared to last year, we probably had a similar... amount of injuries as we did last year, but last year we weren't able to back it up and our depth probably wasn't on full display, whereas this year we've had a much stronger next man in mentality and whoever's come in has been able to play their role really clearly and still be able to perform for the team.

What needs to go right to beat the Dockers in Fremantle?

Yeah, obviously, a lot needs to go right, given the form that they're in.

I think they've won 14 on the trot, which is just a remarkable effort from their end.

Are you looking forward to that just to get an exact bearing on, on where you will feel you are as a footy club this year?

Yeah, absolutely.

Obviously, um, Freo are the benchmark, and there's probably no bigger challenge to go over there and try and beat them on their home deck in the form that they're in.

And, um, yeah, personnel, um, who's there or not, um, we just focus on who's on... out there on the field.

I think the pleasing thing throughout this, this season compared to last year, we probably had a similar, um, amount of injuries that, um, as we did last year.

But last year we weren't able to, to back it up and, um, our depth probably wasn't on, um, full display.

Whereas this year we've had a much stronger next man in mentality and whoever's come in has been able to play their role really clearly and, and still be able to perform for the team.

What needs to go right to beat the Dockers in Fremantle?

... um, do, do you personally get more out of that than a, a 10-goal win when, when you ha- are exposed to a, as you pointed out, a six-goal deficit at one stage of it?

Um, yeah, I think so.

I think the...

We were actually speaking about it before the game.

Um, if you win off the back of those sort of, um, situations instead of just a big offensive performance, you probably, um, learn more and, and enjoy those sort of wins better.

And I think especially off the back of North Melbourne, we spoke a lot about our defense, um, against, uh, against North.

And, and then to come out against the Pies and obviously start pretty poorly was disappointing, so to wrestle it back off the back of some de- defense and front-half footy was, um, was really impressive.

No.

... to last night's win, um, do, do you personally get more out of that than a, a 10-goal win when, when you ha- are exposed to a, as you pointed out, a six-goal deficit at one stage of it?

Um, yeah, I think so.

I think the...

We were actually speaking about it before the game.

Um, if you win off the back of those sort of, um, situations instead of just a big offensive performance, you probably, um, learn more and, and enjoy those sort of wins better.

And I think especially off the back of North Melbourne, we spoke a lot about our defense, um, against, uh, against North and, and then to come out against the Pies and obviously start pretty poorly was disappointing.

So to wrestle it back off the back of some de- defense and front half footy was, um, was really impressive.

No.

What did you learn from those players during that period? 'Cause it was a great transition for the footy club.

Yeah, yeah.

It was incredible to get drafted.

Um, I still remember, um, they were probably the most welcoming, um, when I first walked into the change rooms at the SCG.

I still remember that vividly on my first day walking in.

Um, they were probably the most welcoming, the older boys.

And then, um, throughout my first few years working really closely as mids with Parkesy and Joey, um, they, I can attest, [laughs] like the most that I, the, the, all that I sort of know I've learnt off them.Um, so working with, um, absolute legends, uh, of the game really, um, for the first few years of my career.

Yeah.