do you find it so fun when we were obviously working quite a long time ago with our business like selling scope was really hard like people wanted you to do that for free and then i was going and going this is you know to get this right it's a lot of work and if you get the right scope then you can go to multiple development agencies and get proper quotes and so it is worth money but i think it's probably moved on but in those days it's quite a long time ago that was like a really hard sell

I think it's all about positioning and this goes back to your question of how do you get the clients to take the risk with you.

Clients who are in the early stages themselves of running a business are more keen to take risks.

Smaller companies are keen to take risks.

Bigger companies are not keen at all on taking risk.

However, there's something really interesting there, which is that if you aim for bigger markets and bigger companies even, then they really do appreciate the planning and scoping work that you do because you're delivering exactly what they're afraid of.

You're delivering De-risking.

your secrets is it people is it