One of the two.

One of the two.

Yeah.

And I remember being in a ground off the back of when he played and every time he touched the ball, every time his face appeared on the big screen and everybody just booed you know it was because it was like kind of i imagine what it would have been like for enzo fernandez this season for argentina when you know he took to the field for chelsea in the first um couple of rounds of the premier league season but it's going to be incredible because it i think you're going to get so many people from around the world that might not necessarily be a manchester city or liverpool fan but would support a premier league team They're going to want to watch this game because they're going to want to see what happens.

And I think every time the players' names are read out on the town hall beforehand, they're going to get booed.

I think I would be stunned if there isn't some banner that's put up in the crowd from the Liverpool fans, whether the club maybe turn a little bit of a blind eye to it and kind of plead ignorance afterwards and say that they didn't know.

I'm anticipating an asterisk or something like that or some message from the fans that will go up in the crowd saying, about what we've now known about the independent commission's viewings and the findings from this whole fiasco.

Does that resonate probably with the rest of the game around England, the football people in England?

Does that, like, does that resonate probably with the rest of the game around England, the, the, the football people in England?

Yeah, it does because, like, there's, there's, there's cheating where you dive for a penalty or, you know, y- you, you, you appeal for a throw-in you know isn't yours or, you know, whatever it may be, and then there's this.

And this is...

The, the thing that I think has struck a chord with so many people and has, and has wounded a lot of people is that it was so cynical and it was, it was, it was a, a plan seemingly masterminded over time to deceive everybody else to get what they wanted with, with little regard for what it would do for the reputation of English football, what it would do for the reputation of the Premier League, which by the way, I think is, is in absolute tatters at the moment unless they come out with, with a very, very strong punishment.

Because how you can possibly look at, at the Premier League and say, "Your, you know, your integrity isn't affected," because you've had someone that has, has, you know, you know, seemingly cheated beyond belief to, to get what they wanted and, and has disregarded all of your rules and processes, then I, I think that's why so many people are so, not just interested in this, but they, they want, they want blood really.

They want, they want to feel like something has been done to punish the people that have, have, you know, have, have, have wronged them.

And I, I think when you see Ian Holloway, like you said, he is, you know, he's great for a soundbite and he does care deeply about English football.

Where do you land with it?

I haven't read the full, full report and it's... redacted i believe in in some respects but i can't see how they keep their professional status i can't see how they don't slide beyond the football league pyramid and have to start again that way given the scale of all these allegations that have been found guilty by an independent panel where do you land with it

i agree i completely agree and i thought quite long and hard about it because you know the premier league have to obviously they have to be seen to be putting their foot down, but at the same time, they're aware that whatever punishment, you know, the independent commission comes up with that they then, you know, sign off on will, will affect their brand in as much as, you know, if they expel Manchester city, that will be the premier league without Manchester city, which will have an impact around the world.

Right.

They've been incredibly successful.

They're not as big a team as Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, by any stretch of the imagination.

But they're still a big team now in the global standings of football.

So whatever happens, they're going to have to kind of wear that.

But, yeah, it's an interesting take from a big Liverpool publication.

And Argentinians just take it upon themselves to say, you're not better than us and we're going to prove it.

Yeah, yeah.

And look, I think...

Me being an Englishman, I've kind of always been sort of drilled into me from a younger age to not really like them.

And as a sad reality as that is, that's kind of probably true for a lot of different nationalities, but other different nationalities growing up.

I can separate that from the football.

Do I like them as a team? Not really.

That's just the Spanish way, isn't it?

And Argentinians just take it upon themselves to say, you're not better than us and we're going to prove it.

Yeah, yeah.

And look, I think...

Me being an Englishman, you know, I've kind of always been sort of drilled into me from a younger age to not really like them.

And, you know, as a sad reality as that is, that's kind of, you know, probably true for a lot of different nationalities, but other different nationalities growing up.

But.

I can separate that from the football.

That's just the Spanish way, isn't it?

Is it going home? Is football going back to its birthplace with a win in this World Cup?

Oh, that question that appears every two years of a major tournament.

To be honest, I don't know.

I don't know.

There's a real big part of me that I am actually just getting carried away and I'm just getting excited by it.

There's this perception about England and fans in particular that there's an arrogance there.

The song itself, Three Lions and stuff, it's all self-deprecating.

And that can't be a fluke.

Is it going home? Is football going back to its birthplace with a win in this World Cup?

Oh, that, that question that appears every two years with a major tournament.

Um, I, to be honest, I, I don't, I don't know.

I don't know.

There's a real big part of me that I, I am actually just getting carried away and I'm just getting excited by it.

You know, like, there's this perception about England and fans in particular that there's an arrogance there.

You know, the song itself, Three Lions and stuff, it's, it's all self-deprecating, right? It's about the misery they've endured over the years being England fans, and the heartbreak and everything that comes with it.

Yeah

Is it going home? Is football going back to its birthplace with a win in this World Cup?

Oh, that question that appears every two years of a major tournament.

To be honest, I don't know.

I don't know.

There's a real big part of me that I am actually just getting carried away and I'm just getting excited by it.

There's this perception about England and fans in particular that there's an arrogance there.

The song itself, Three Lions and stuff, it's all self-deprecating.

And that can't be a fluke.

Oh, wow.

So it's all weird and wonderful.

Like Surry Hills.

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, it's a city full of Surry Hills establishments.

But yeah, it was really cool.

And I didn't see any trouble at all.

Who's the most

Was it worth the trip?

Hello, guys.

Yeah, definitely.

It was an amazing trip.

I flew via, uh, Korea, so I had a f- a night in Korea first, and then didn't get any jet lag, which was nice, and then landed in Budapest on Thursday evening, local time, and then the Satur- the final was on the Saturday.

So it was an amazing experience.

Did a lot of kind of work over there, but a lot of content capture for, for the podcast, and bumped into a couple of old media colleagues and friends who I knew kind of support Arsenal and travel with them all over the world.

Like Surry Hills [laughs]

Was it worth the trip?

Hello, guys.

Yeah, definitely.

It was an amazing trip.

I flew via, uh, Korea.

So I had a, a night in Korea first, and then...

Didn't get any jet lag, which was nice, and then landed in Budapest on Thursday evening, local time, and then the Satur- the final was on the Saturday.

Like Surry Hills? [laughs]

They need to carry on

... unless they're kind of...

Yeah, unless they're over 60.

You know, even David Moyes has his, has his fun on the touchline.

But I think if you look at the way he is now, I think he's maybe realized that the energy that he is kind of putting out there on the touchline maybe does have a bit of an effect on some of his players, and the way that they see him kind of jumping up and down and swinging the arms around and doing all the kind of, you know, the tactical instructions with his fingers and his hands and stuff like that.

I think maybe that he's looked at that and, and learnt from that of past years and said, "You know what? Maybe I just need to reign it in a little bit." It's hard to when, you know, you're at the team and you're being hunted at the top all season and, you know, everything is so pressure cooker, especially the way Arsenal have played this year, which I'm sure we'll come onto.

But, you know, I think he's, he's, he's just like anybody.

If the refs are gonna allow a judo match to break out at every set piece, well, you may as well get involved and do it better than anyone, and that's what Arsenal have done this season.

Uh, so Sydney and Newcastle, James, I mean, do Newcastle just try and blow Sydney away, or do they take the fact that they've got the second leg at home and just try to get some kinda result but n- with full knowledge that they will be able to overwhelm their opponents next week?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it's a really, makes for a really, um, really en- e- enthralling encounter, doesn't it, because you've got the best attack in the league against the best defense in Sydney and the best attack in Newcastle.

So Sydney have transformed a little bit since Patrick Kisnorbo's come in.

They're very resilient.

They're unbeaten in the five games that he's taken charge.

... six finals in 10 years, is it? Something like that?

Do you judge it as that, as the ability to put heat on, or is it trepidation that City are probably going to get past Everton? So Arsenal, there's pressure there that they absolutely have to get it right against a pretty good Fulham side who are pushing for a European spot themselves.

Mm-hmm, yep.

And I think it's exactly the same scenario, albeit, you know, as you'll know better than anyone, that Newcastle and Fulham are in kind of different veins of form at the moment.

But this is a must-win game for Arsenal, and there is no option.

I don't think they can afford to drop points in this.

I think it's so tight that both teams will be thinking, we have to win every single game remaining in the campaign.

And if that happens, then there's a very good chance, obviously, it goes down to goal difference or even goal scored, as it was after the Man City-Burnley game last week.

Do they play in a must-win game?

Yeah

... which is before the end of the Premier League season.

So it's kind of a game that Man City and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea have to contend with now because, you know, Man City are gunning for the title.

Chelsea have nothing else to play for in their season because it looks like they're gonna miss out on Champions League football.

So, you know, it's, it's a bit of a shame in that regard, I think, that the FA Cup doesn't have its, its, its own weekend like it always did, and the whole week building up to the FA Cup was about the FA Cup final.

Um, but I think if you're Leeds and Southampton, you know, they've certainly done themselves proud and, and the job Daniel Farke has done at Leeds to, to not only look as though he's led them to Premier League survival, but to get them to an FA Cup semifinal.

Okay, they didn't necessarily play their best, and Robert Sanchez, the Chelsea goalkeeper, did have quite a few saves to make.

And now with this Manchester City making the FA Cup final, it gives a l- another little twist to the run-in for the Premier League because it means Manchester City, the, the fixture congestion really happens in that last week.