I'm thinking that's awkward.

First time I went was in Maltby in my constituency.

And I must admit, I was a bit like, oh, another thing talking about my feelings, another mental health thing.

You know, there's kind of a lot of talk about it.

And I was completely blown away.

It was just before the general election.

So that was a stressful period for me.

Is that right? A

But this idea that there is growing pressure as regards the two killers of Andrew Harper, uh, is this now being looked at again, or as far, as far as you understand it, are they going to be freed later this year?

Well, we've set out the offenses which the Prime Minister has carved out above and beyond those which were never subject to the new regime.

Those were published last night.

They run to two or three pages, and your viewers and listeners are able to find them on the government website.

It's right to say that two of the, uh, offenders, uh, involved in the horrific incident involving PC Harper are not, haven't been convicted of those offenses.

One was convicted of those offenses.

Uh, uh, so currently, they will be subject to the new regime.

Can you respond to that?

Morning to you, sir.

Thank you, Nick.

Yes, look, it's one of the most shocking and systemic cases of child sexual and physical abuse where thousands of young, working-class boys in County Durham over a three-decade period were the subject of the most heinous sexual and physical abuse, Nick.

and actually the fact that many of your listeners and viewers won't know about it is actually quite shocking in and of itself because for too long these lads have been overlooked, not listened to by politicians, by parts of the media with some notable exceptions and today I'm doing my bit to try and make a difference so we have accepted all 34 recommendations of the Trowler Review which I launched to make sure that this never happens again and a number of the victims are coming to London to meet me and the Deputy Prime Minister so we can talk them through the actions we are taking to ensure that the horrors that they suffered are never suffered again.

Your response to that?

Well, the sentencing act which was passed in January of this year, and the measures are going to be implemented from the autumn onwards, the sole reason for that legislation, Nick, was to stop the prison system and our criminal justice system collapsing completely.

That's no exaggeration.

We were running out of prison places fast.

But that doesn't mean we let out rapists

and would-be murderers, though.

Well, Nick, let me just explain what's happening.

The government took two really important strands of action.

The first is, let's build some more prison places.

So we're undertaking the fastest and biggest prison building programme since the Victorian era.

14,000 new places by 2031 but we cannot simply build our way out of this crisis so we have made changes to the sentencing regime that was legislated for through the sentencing act which received royal assent in January of this year and those provisions are coming into effect over the course of 2026 now let me be clear also that where we are releasing offenders earlier than they might otherwise have been released we are also implementing far more robust community packages to ensure public Well, is that like the people who

But that doesn't mean we let out rapists and would-be murderers, though.

You're bloody useless at doing what you're doing"?

Well, look, the British people are angry.

We saw that last May.

We had local elections, and we got battered across the country, and actually most acutely in our heartlands, the places where the Labour Party was born.

Uh, and that has caused, and rightly s- caused, uh, a debate about what has gone wrong, but most importantly, what we do to fix it.

And I think actually when you look at that debate, whether it's Tony Blair's essay, Keir Starmer's response on Substack, uh, our candidate in Makefield, um, Andy Burnham and Wes Streeting now, you know, I think there's a consensus amongst the Labour Party that when we came into government, our ambitions did not meet the scale of the challenges that we face as a country, and I think that that's, there's an acceptance of that.

Uh, uh, and we now need to, uh, in the second half of this parliament, make sure that we amend that and meet those challenges, and that means being more radical, thinking bigger, um, uh, and making sure that we are able to get there.

Can, can politics and politicians do anything about this?

Is there a role for policy to address

either of those things? Well, there's a few things.

I'm not for a minute pretending that government can solve the challenges that young men face on its own.

Absolutely not.

This is an issue for all of us.

as individuals, as society.

But I definitely think that there is perhaps more we could do when we consider public policy, whether that's education policy, whether that's economic policy, frankly, to sort of think about the specific challenges that boys and men face.

But do men need spaces too, where they can come together, where they can talk, help combat loneliness, those things? Do we need to talk more about men's spaces?

Can you give us any insight as to whether that might be happening, um, or whether you think it should?

Well, uh, uh, to disappoint you, the writing of the King's Speech is somewhat above my pay grade, Ian.

But what I would say is, as the Prime Minister has said repeatedly, and indeed Darren Jones, the, um, chief secretary to the Prime Minister in the House of Commons today has said, when we are discussing the, whether it's the appointment of Mandelson and the issues regarding that, when we are discussing, uh, uh, issues in general relating, um, to Jeffrey Epstein, the victims of this horrific crime must always be at the forefront of our minds.

And I have no doubt that the King, as he visits America, as he makes public statements, will reiterate that.

But of course, that is a matter for His Majesty.

Do you agree with him?

No, [laughs] I don't agree with him.

Uh, I'm not sure, uh, what context he was making these remarks to school children a few months ago, but in any event, uh, uh, we are in the business of getting on with government.

Keir Starmer and Mette Frederiksen, the Danish Prime Minister have written today, "The best way of fighting against the forces of hate and division is to show that mainstream progressive politics can fix the problem." Is that your message to Europe? Is that how grave you think the situation is and you really root the ECHR at the cause of that?

Absolutely.

Look, what's coming out of, uh, Strasbourg today is really, really important on both the legal technicalities and the ECHR and modernizing how we, uh, interpret and implement the ECHR.

But there's a bigger point here which is about European countries and partners coming together to tackle the big problems we face in the 21st century and one of those is mass irregular or illegal migration and working together to confront that, because that is the only way we're going to solve these problems, by working with our international partners.

And that's the big dividing line in British politics at the moment.

You know, today you have the Prime Minister working with, uh, colleagues abroad, the Deputy Prime Minister in Strasbourg making the case on the continent for the need to work together, making progress, and you have the Conservatives and Reform who simply want to rip up the whole thing and start again.

And, look, we've got to deliver-

And when?

I mean, 40 doesn't seem to be that many.

Well, I mean, it was, to- to be blunt we didn't try that hard, Ian, to get everyone to sign it.

I, you know, I've had conversations in the tearoom and across Parliament with colleagues who I think are pretty, um, keen for this.

The idea of the letter was we've got members from the Red Wall group, from Blue Labor group, from the Labour Growth group, showing there's kind of a real breadth of support across these different types of groups, different priorities, um, but all of them think that digital ID can play a role in furthering why they've come into politics.

Um, and look, as I say, this is not a letter that criticizes the government.

Peter Kyle is already doing really great work in this area in terms of digital driving licenses.

By the end of the Parliament, tens of millions of adults will have a digital ID of some sort.

Um, so this w- there wouldn't actually be a physical card here?

Is that the way to go?

Well, I think it's an absolute necessity to show the public that you take their concerns incredibly seriously and that you're acting upon them.

Now, it's not the whole answer to this problem, but it's an absolute necessity.

It's a step that has to be taken.

I'm pleased the government are taking it.

What-- In Germany, one of the issues that I think the SPD have, the governing center-left party, is there are still wide swathes of that party and that movement that simply will not face up to the reality that immigration is a major concern for people.

So we had a conversation with a strategist in a progressive think tank in Berlin, and she said, "People think immigration is a concern, but actually it's schools and hospitals." And that's the attitude which will lead to the devastating defeat that they're likely to face next week.

I f-- I get a sense you share it.