Would you like to have a stab at something that nobody else has actually written on paper, what it might actually look like to you?

Well, I think the first thing is...

Why define national security? Okay.

So when I talk about it, I'm talking about it as an element in a very serious criminal offense.

Now, when we talk about the National Security College at the ANU, we're using the word in a different way.

We're talking about a whole area of research of things that impact our national well-being, our economy, our way of life, much broader category.

Now, both are appropriate, but we use this word in very different ways.

OK.