What do we know currently and then what surprises you about it?

The reason it's difficult to really get to grips with the research from a kind of a biological medical model is because simply the best way to analyze children's brains is to stuff them inside an MRI scan.

And of course, you can't be doing that with children.

And also, when they're laughing, it gets even worse because when we laugh, we jiggle around and MRI scans just don't work like that.

So we have to rely a lot on what's going on for adults and also rely on what we know about chemicals and endorphins and all of those beautiful, beautiful chemicals that just... calm us down and make us more peaceful and you mentioned curiosity and do you know what one of one of the first casualties if you like if we just get too pressurized if we get too stressed is actually curiosity curiosity just shuts down and so a lot of the work that i've been looking at is right at the intersection of psychology, neurology.

And I've traveled the world metaphorically some of the time by using digital media and Zoom.

And also physically, I came over to America and to Louisville and to some of the hospitals over there and other countries as well.

Remember when we drank out of a coconut on the island? And so what is happening in his brain when he has those moments like that?

[laughs]

Let me tell you about Kentucky.

Okay.

So after I'd finished the other book, The Brain That Loves to Play, this professor, um, from Kentucky contacted me, and, um, she runs, um, a pediatric spinal unit hospital over in Kentucky, and she said, "Jacqueline, I've just read your book.

I'd love you to come over and teach us about play in a spinal unit where they're using therapy, um, and they need the children from 18 months to 18 years to engage." And I, I went over there, to be honest, with fear and tre- trepidation.

I thought, "Oh, Lord, this is a big ask." Anyway, little did I know that as I walked down those corridors, and it was a big hospital, and I went into each clinic, oh, my gosh, they were already doing everything that we've been talking about.

They were connecting with the children.

Mm-hmm

Again, not trashing the whole house, but some messiness if it's gonna lead to some good play.

Yeah.

A- absolutely.

And the brain is a predicting organ, um, and it uses a lot of the, um, energy that it gets thinking about what it's going to do.

So it has this amazing recursive ability.

So the brain is able to think about itself thinking, and as I've said that, you both began to think about yourself thinking.

And I mean, it's like, drives you mad, doesn't it? You're going round, and round, and round.

Do you have resources that parents can check out or educators can check out to learn more about this?

Right

... or too overly optimistic." And so I brought in that balance probably just by accident really.

And when I went to Louisville, I was invited over there.

And I mean, honestly, this was just such a privilege, by, um, a professor over there who have this, she has this spinal injury unit, and I thought, "Wow." And she said, "Oh, please come over and talk about play and help us develop play and laughter and joy and fun." I thought, "This is gonna be a tough gig." And yet when I went over there and they were using therapeutic methods rather than, um, any interventions.

So they were using, um, real amazing therapy.

And they had to have the cooperation of the children from 18 months to 18 years.

And as I walked down the corridor, I realized that laughter was coming from each of the sessions, and then I witnessed the brilliance of the brain in action as these people, um, as these, uh, as the staff drew upon the children's humor and laughter, and not once did I hear a child say, "No, I don't want to take part in one of those therapy sessions." It, it really made me realize the therapeutic nature of play and laughter in such a grounded way.

Yeah

I imagine all of those things sort of kick in here too.

No, you're absolutely right.

And one of the main fears that I came across over the last couple of years whilst I've been researching, and I was a head teacher myself as well, is people are really worried about losing control.

Now, it's not about having a joke book.

tucked under your arm, whether you're at home or at school.

But it's about the atmosphere that's being created.

And that really signals joy.

The other one, no.