the

big thing, right? So we have experienced...

across a variety of different ways of educating, both sort of formal academic in the classroom and out in the field, field courses, and also right through this sort of digital space.

And I think the one thing that we noticed a lot is that, as you were saying, just plants... enrich people's lives, not just from a utilitarian perspective, right? But it's enriching, just purely, right? It's enriching to be able to look at these organisms through a different lens, not as something on my plate, not as something that I'm wearing, right? Not as something that brings me something, but as this other living organism that is so wholly different from me, It just brings a different dimension to your life, right? Maybe a more purposeful one, maybe a more enriching one, whatever.

But it's something that we definitely notice in people when we show them clean the window, so to speak, right? Maybe another metaphor would be focus the lens, right? Once you stop seeing the world...

as this green background to life and actually bring everything into focus and say, oh, that's this species of oak or that's this species of grass that you're identifying grass.

God bless you.

Do you want to start,

What about you, Jacob?

Yeah, so as Ben said, I think my trajectory is a little bit more linear.

So, I mean, I grew up in Maryland, sort of romping around the swamps, if you will.

And I always was into nature, sort of walking around, pulling oak leaves and cracking open acorns and stuff.

But my passion for plants as sort of in a directed or focused way didn't really manifest until Um, I got to college.

I went to the university of Vermont.

Um, and you know, I think I was a molecular genetics major for a week.

It works, but I'm like, where does the genetic manual come from? I guess it's the adaptability of the plants.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, another thing that you said that I think really resonated with us is, you know, you have all these keys and these floras, which are fantastic resources.

We use them all the time.

Right.

Both in an academic and in a sort of science communication sort of way.

But ID is just one dynamic, one piece of botanizing.

What about this process has kind of opened your philosophies up or changed the way you look at just communication in general? Because you see a lot of things that work just purely in numbers, but are they reaching, are they doing the thing or are they just feeding that fear and anger algorithm that I don't think is helping anyone?