So how do you, if you're a business leader, if you're a director, how do you make sure that you're living the values that you're talking about?

Yeah, one, it's about being clear what the behaviours are behind those values.

And one of the things that...

My Christchurch period led to me being fascinated about why some companies do better than others, trying to balance all the stakeholders' needs.

It's not easy.

And because you've got investment capital needing to support your business for insurers, it's a reinsurance capital.

Employees expect things of you, customers, the regulators.

How do you kind of marry those two things together?

Are we, are we exposing ourselves as organizations unnecessarily to risk by having a disconnect between where things are starting and where they're finishing?

Yeah, it's a [laughs] very good question, Roger, because I think in the era of concern around greenwashing, as a good example, right, there are some boards who are saying, "We have to pull back all our statements on what we're doing about climate change." Now, climate change is not stopping, so therefore pulling back your statements about what you say you're gonna do is not the solution.

But actually making sure that you've changing your operating model to be able to deliver on what you've said is the right solution.

And what I'm finding is that- Really value-driven companies are starting strategy in the boardroom.

Yes, the executives have the accountability for its execution, but there's enough trust between the executive team and the board to really rigorous conversations about what strategy is.

Now, when I did my MBA, Po- Porter's Five Forces was alive and well.

You know, the company has all the power, and you move all the power to the company.

... that, um, others can take advice or guidance from?